#dev 2021-02-05

2021-02-05 UTC
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[schmarty] jacky: 👀 super interested in the Steam gameplay backfill project you mentioned in #indieweb! i see indieweb.org/play links to the Steam API for the last two weeks of activity only. can you share about the service you're using to get at historical data?
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jacky that's how I'm going to do it! using that endpoint to pull as many of them as possible and send them back to a site via Micropub!
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jacky I think I should have a small demo ready by the HWC after next
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[schmarty] oh! you are making the middle service 😂
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jacky haha yeah
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[schmarty] that is a great idea and i am excited to hear how it goes!
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[tantek] Marty in the middle?
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@CurtisLusmore ↩️ I have made a few tweaks to it over time, and I added a tiny amount of JavaScript to handle page view-count logging and Webmentions, but it's been more or less static now for just over 2 years. Every line of HTML, CSS and JavaScript was hand-written by me. (twitter.com/_/status/1357662684712341505)
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paul3 So I am trying to implement micropub to my website but I am wondering how I should do sections. I would like to have for example a "post-type" field for different categories, because the categorie field is used for tags.
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@XabCorinti #100DaysofCode R3|D6 To do: - Some mobile optimization - Make Bridgy & Webmentions work - Check stuff on Netlify (twitter.com/_/status/1357720639939952640)
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jacky paul3: do you mind expanding on what sections are to you?
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paul3 like photography, software, 3d prints...
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aaronpk paul3: i would avoid doing anything strictly based on post type, but are you maybe talking about something similar to how i have different feeds on the page where different posts get sorted into them? e.g. my "articles" vs "photos" lists?
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aaronpk hm those sound like categories/tags to me
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paul3 but I want them to be mysite.tld/<category>/<slug>
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aaronpk you can choose your URL pattern however you want, that's not really related to micropub
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paul3 but tags would be additional to category or section or whatever I call them
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paul3 maybe I should just use the first tag
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aaronpk ah i see, yeah there isn't a special field for that kind of organization in micropub
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aaronpk i think because that category isn't a property of a post, it's more like where the post lives. whereas tags *are* properties of the post and are often shown as hashtags
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paul3 I think that would also be nice for likes, replys and bookmarks. So you have a type and an url field (the url could also be (in) the content)
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aaronpk i have some logic in my micropub endpoint that sorts posts appropriately based on what's in them, so likes go on my /likes page, replies go on /replies, if there's a photo then it goes on /photos etc
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[KevinMarks] are you wanting something like Hugo's headers for that?
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paul3 but thats just making it more complicated
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sknebel > likes, replys and bookmarks - those already have their own properties, so its kinda unnecessary to specify "post with bookmark-of: <url> oh and also it's a bookmark!"
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paul3 yeah you would then just have a url field
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paul3 instead of bookmark-of reply-to and like-of
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aaronpk not sure what you mean, those property names are pretty well established at this point, and micropub clients know to send those depending on what action is being taken
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paul3 they are kind of ugly. I think having one type property would be more elegant instead of having an extra field for each action
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aaronpk the problem is there's lots of times a post isn't actually just one post type so forcing it into a post type property ends up being more awkward later
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[schmarty] a lot of indieweb wiki pages about posts has a bias towards "a post _is_ type X" but i feel like we've been talking more about "a post _has_ some properties" in recent years.
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[schmarty] what is Post Type Discovery?
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Loqi Post Type Discovery specifies an algorithm for consuming code to determine the type of a post by its content properties and their values rather than an explicit “post type” property, thus better matched to modern post creation UIs that allow combining text, media, etc in a variety of ways without burdening users with any notion of what kind of post they are creating https://indieweb.org/post-type-discovery
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jacky hm I think bridgy might be timing out
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[schmarty] Post Type Discovery is like a weird hybrid.
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paul3 I don't want to have that ^^
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aaronpk what we've found is if you try to force things into specific post types, you'll end up regretting it later :)
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paul3 what would be an example for a post with multiple categories (not tags)
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aaronpk a checkin post that has a photo
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aaronpk it's both a checkin and a photo
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paul3 but a checkin photo probably won't be artistic photography,
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aaronpk who says photo posts have to be artistic photography?
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aaronpk also i try to post photos in my checkins that i do consider nice photos
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paul3 me
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[KevinMarks] Known went with post types UI; other tools have a more 'add a thing' ui
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[KevinMarks] and combination posts do make sense - a checkin can be combined with a review and photos
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[KevinMarks] and indeed cope with different people's ideas for organisation - you want an 'artistic photos' post type, so do you also want an 'informative photos' post type for eg the menu or oprning hours of the cafe you're checking into?
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[KevinMarks] hence tags/categories
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[chrisaldrich] Like Kevin Marks indicates, I use tags/categories to carry that sort of load on my site.
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[KevinMarks] this is how we ended up with post type discovery - to categorise posts based on contents
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@mdrockwell Is there actually a benefit to showing the Webmention field on your site? Does it actually get used? It feels like all of the Webmentions are automated through the protocol/API, not manually by copy and pasting a link. I’ve turned it off for now. We’ll see. (twitter.com/_/status/1357739857188188166)
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[snarfed] jacky yup, twitter’s API is timing out (after 60s). i’m seeing that in all your recent publish attempt logs on https://brid.gy/twitter/jackyalcine
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[snarfed] and from others too
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[snarfed] aaaand their status page isn’t showing anything. https://api.twitterstat.us/
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jacky grrr
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jacky I thought it was me failing
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aaronpk the moral of the story is always blame twitter first
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[schmarty] failing... to leave twitter! (jkjkjk)
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jacky tbh true
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jacky this also reminds me during some thinkin this morning
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[snarfed] also definitely always look at the bridgy HTTP status code and body for errors! they should always be meaningful. in this case, these are 504s (gateway timeout) and should say upstream timeout in the message
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jacky yup - Lighthouse has been checking for that; I think it was me being impatient (and also not properly surfacing it)
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jacky fr lol
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jacky dang I can't even log into Monocle if I don't update my IndieAuth implementation D:
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[chrisaldrich] jacky, that IndieAuth (bug/feature) had me using Togther for a nice change. Of course it also meant that I couldn't change subscriptions at Aperture either, so I spent some time test-driving Yarns too. plurality++
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Loqi plurality has 3 karma in this channel over the last year (11 in all channels)
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jacky indeed!
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jacky I'd have to reimport all of my feeds tho - that's my only gripe (and part of the reason for that discussion re: feeds and follow posts the other day!)
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Saphire Plurality?
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aaronpk What is plurality?
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Loqi Encouraging a plurality of projects with a self-motivated incentive to interoperate is a key principle of the indie web, in contrast to monoculture efforts which require or even encourage everyone to install the same software, or use the same online service, in order to interoperate https://indieweb.org/plurality
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jacky like imagine if you were using Twitter's client app but wanted to follow things on Tumblr; you could just 'switch' what service provides you with content with no noticable changes!
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ There are some sites that have receiving implemented but not sending, and it was primarily meant for that. (This is probably most often people who are using http://webmention.io as their proxy endpoint by registering and adding a line of code to their… https://boffosocko.com/?p=55786447 (twitter.com/_/status/1357774380756054016)
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jacky very random, could one consider _anything_ to be a feed?
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jacky I'm wondering if it's possible for me to expose a feed for entries mainly about the incoming webmentions for it
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jacky like if I provided a URL like https://v2.jacky.wtf/post/e81e3faf-776d-46a5-b988-1ae64ad871c4#feed
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Loqi Okay, so glad I got some baseline stuff for my site fixed. Especially so I can post from my phone.
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jacky (though I think most clients _might not_ pay that any mind)
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jacky (squints) I wonder if Loqi couldn't find my h-card
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[KevinMarks] Comment feed is a common pattern already wp makes them by default I think
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[schmarty] h-feed often gets suggested as a generic container but any microformats2 element can also have children.
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[KevinMarks] Or indeed no container
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[schmarty] a container with an ID makes sense if you want an mf2-capable reader to be able to subscribe to it, for sure.
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[KevinMarks] The value of h-feed is being able to name it and add feed specific info
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Saphire Hmph.. I am confused about difference between auth and token endpoints for IndieAuth
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[KevinMarks] What is u-translation-of?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "u-translation-of" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "u-translation-of is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[KevinMarks] What is translation?
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Loqi translations are alternative versions of posts that have been translated (rewritten with the intent of maintaining meaning) into another language https://indieweb.org/translation
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[KevinMarks] u-translation-of is a proposed way to link to the original of your translation. See https://indieweb.org/translations#How_to_markup
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Loqi ok
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aaronpk Saphire: auth endpoint is where the user logs in, token endpoint is where the token comes from
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jacky hm, I'm curious if there's any libraries that can specifically extract things by an ID when requested like this
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jacky I'm okay with making a separate page solely as a feed for these things tbh
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Saphire Extract from where?
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jacky from a ID/anchor in a URL re: my earlier question
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jacky leo60228: there's a service for what you're mentioning
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jacky it's made by this person, Remy
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jacky https://github.com/remy/wm
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Loqi [remy] wm: webmention check service
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jacky looks like you might need _another_ service
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jacky https://webmention.app/docs#using-ifttt-to-trigger-checks
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aaronpk What is netlify?
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Loqi Netlify is a CDN/static hosting provider with integrated build service, useful for static site generators https://indieweb.org/Netlify
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jacky actually no - https://webmention.app/docs#supported-feed-types looks like you can send them a feed
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jacky tries this out
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aaronpk I feel like people have done this before
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leo60228 ooooooooh, that looks like exactly what i'm looking for
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leo60228 thanks
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jacky yeah
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aaronpk Oh nice webmention.app does it
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leo60228 jacky: do you know if that's smart enough to avoid resending webmentions if the webhook gets called without any new posts? i'd assume so, but
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jacky resending webmentions is okay (and kinda encouraged IIRC)
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jacky but I don't know if it does that
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leo60228 oh, good to know
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Saphire I am currently debating whether to go for PHP, C# Core, or maybe Rust for stuff for my site...
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jacky Saphire: if you're greenfield, I'd say go for PHP
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jacky lots of libraries pre-made there
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jacky you'd have to do a lot of groundwork, I think, for C# and Rust (I'm slowly working on a Microformats parser for Rust)
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jacky (microformats help with doing things like /post_type_discovery, for exampel)
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jacky you could also offload that to something else though
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Saphire C# has an AMAZING database ORM, and asp.net core is also pretty nice for API and stuff
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Saphire But I also kinda want to prod around at Rust as I have been glancing at it for a while but never really got anything to work on for it... And PHP sounds nice as a very quick turn-around from start to minimum viability to finished thing
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jacky whichever you feel best!
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Saphire I'm about as indecisive as a qubit x3
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jacky haha
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leo60228 cool, i got outgoing webmentions and syndication to mastodon working
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jacky nice!
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Saphire Oh? Curious, how does one implement outgoing mentions? Check every link in the post, and ping at them if they are all ok?
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leo60228 i believe so, https://webmention.app/docs has a section on how to use webmention.app + RSS/Atom + a deploy webhook to do it automatically for a static site
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jacky aaronpk: do you have ideas on deduplication (for like the comments in https://aaronparecki.com/2021/02/01/12/)
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] I saw this and was like "honestly there's no way people are going to be still arguing about this" ... then I read the replies and omfg! so many new people to add to my block list. I also went to go fix the MDN definition but saw someone beat me ...
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jacky I've been thinking about this more and since you have webmention.io in a semi-limbo-y state re: code, I figure that's something you'd want to consider
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aaronpk oh i didn't notice that
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aaronpk i do already de-dupe when the posts have the right u-syndication markup
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aaronpk so like if you send a webmention reply and also posse that to twitter, it'll show up once and have a little twitter icon to your copy
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aaronpk i can't de-dupe these without special-casing bridgy tho, since they are webmentions from different domains that just happen to have the same text
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jacky aaah okay
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jacky yeah that's what I was kinda afraid of
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aaronpk i suppose if bridgy were to send a redirect from the old url to the new url then i could handle it generically
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jacky I do know that bridgy tends to send back multiple URL values - I was thinking about doing something like collapsing against those values using some set of heuristics
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jacky ooh that'd be good too
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leo60228 and i now have incoming webmentions! nice
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jacky congrats leo60228!
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leo60228 hm, i'm a bit confused
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leo60228 i posted "test" with a link to a blog post on twitter
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leo60228 it's showing up on brid.gy
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leo60228 but the status column is blank
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leo60228 and the webmention isn't showing up on my site or webmention.io
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jacky https://brid.gy/twitter/leo60228 is saying you don't have webmention support
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aaronpk i think it hasn't run yet
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aaronpk https://brid.gy/log?start_time=1612562636&key=agdicmlkLWd5cjYLEghSZXNwb25zZSIodGFnOnR3aXR0ZXIuY29tLDIwMTM6MTM1NzgxMTczNzQ0NjI2MDczNww
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aaronpk oh yeah also that
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aaronpk i wonder if it cached the "no webmention endpoint" state from before
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jacky yeah
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leo60228 jacky: yeah, but https://brid.gy/mastodon/@leo@60228.dev doesn't say that, and the links are the same...
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jacky try disabling and then re-enabling listening for responses
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jacky in bridgy for twitter
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jacky I _think_ that might kick the cache for that
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leo60228 jacky: it didn't seem to
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jacky [snarfed] might know then
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jacky try also scanning the FAQ
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petermolnar leo60228: you can try to use my integromat setup. It fetches my rss feed and sends webmention based on that.
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petermolnar interesting, I can't find the export/import on integromat
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petermolnar did they disable that?
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[snarfed] aaronpk jacky ahh that bridgy duplication is a one time special case since i recently switched bridgy’s source URLs from brid-gy.appspot.com to brid.gy
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[snarfed] aaronpk also may be unusual in that he de-dupes based on source URL domain instead of u-url
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[snarfed] (there are security/spoofing subtleties, yes, but still)
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petermolnar ffs... https://support.integromat.com/hc/en-us/articles/360013785320-Scenario-Editor -> Export Blueprint -> This feature is available for paid plans only!
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petermolnar so that has been taken away from the free plan
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[snarfed] leo60228 the “no webmention support” warning on https://brid.gy/twitter/leo60228 is because you only have the rel-webmention link on your posts, not on your home page https://leo60228.space/
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[snarfed] shouldn’t affect functionality though
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[snarfed] bridgy didn’t send a webmention for your tweet because it interprets your tweet as the POSSE copy of the post itself. this is why i mentioned on https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/1008 that “Bridgy won’t send your toot itself,” only likes, replies, etc
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Loqi [leo60228] #1008 Is Bridgy what I'm looking for?
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leo60228 [snarfed]: ahh
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[snarfed] more detail: https://brid.gy/about#which
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leo60228 i didn't realize the "contain links to your site" was specific to other users, gotcha
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leo60228 thanks
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leo60228 is it possible to have multiple sites with bridgy?
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leo60228 i'd assume that for services that support linking multiple sites already i just link both
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leo60228 but idk about how to do that for ones like twitter
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leo60228 wait nm this isn't actually necessary i think
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[snarfed] yes, bridgy supports multiple sites per silo account
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[snarfed] aaronpk good idea on redirecting brid-gy.appspot source URLs to brid.gy, that’s done now
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aaronpk [snarfed]++ now it's my fault if it's duped on my site :)
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Loqi [snarfed] has 31 karma in this channel over the last year (58 in all channels)
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leo60228 hm, why isn't webmention.app picking up the https://brid.gy/publish/mastodon for https://leo60228.space/automatic-syndication-and-cross-platform-interactions-with-blogs/ but it is for https://leo60228.space/indieweb?
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leo60228 i'm using the atom feed: https://leo60228.space/atom.xml
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jacky migth have to open a ticket on https://webmention.app for more infoi
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jacky I don't think the maker loiters in here
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jacky wait no
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jacky leo60228: you _might_ need to add "u-syndication" to those bridgy links for webmention.app to pick them up
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jacky looking at the mf2 for that page, it looks like those links are only in the body and there's a _small_ chance webmention.app isn't picking that up
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leo60228 jacky: okay this is very weird
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leo60228 running the cli tool it picks it up
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leo60228 it's just the api that doesn't
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leo60228 wait nm
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leo60228 it's the same
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leo60228 i opened an issue https://github.com/remy/wm/issues/37
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Loqi [leo60228] #37 One link isn't getting picked up
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leo60228 adding class="u-syndication" doesn't help
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jacky I don't know then, sorry
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jacky I send and receive Webmentions using my own setup based on the spec