#dev 2021-02-04

2021-02-04 UTC
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jacky new site design!!1 lol https://v2.jacky.wtf/stream/all?page=2
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jacky based on spectre (so much simpler of a css toolkit though its responsive approach is very weird)
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jacky so many bugs
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[schmarty] it's a website and that is what matters jacky++
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Loqi jacky has 31 karma in this channel over the last year (105 in all channels)
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Saphire I'm looking at auth stuff for indie..pub? Are the auth and tokens an opaque thing that can be basically anything?
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aaronpk yeah in indieauth and oauth, the authorization code and access token only need to be understood by the authorization server, so you're free to use any format you want
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Saphire ... And as long as it can't be trivially guessed by external actor
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aaronpk right
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Saphire So it can be complex token/claim system, or it can be random 256 bits wrapped in b64?
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Saphire Just that the Auth/token points should be able to understand them again
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aaronpk yeah you'll see anything from JWTs to just a random string
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Saphire Could be incremental integer for some debugging thing too
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aaronpk that sounds like it could be trivially guessed
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aaronpk you could use the letter "x" as an access token and authorization code too, it wouldn't be a good idea, but it would work :)
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aaronpk i've actually done that before when testing stuff
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jacky ha, thank you [schmarty]
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jacky incremental progress :)
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[schmarty] ok got my kapowski situation sorted. waiting for DNS to propagate to glitch before i turn off the fly.io entry.
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[schmarty] ah heck yeah custom domain working on Glitch
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petermolnar https://twitter.com/MiriSuzanne/status/1255567501359853570 ::insert mind blown gif::
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@MiriSuzanne "Masonry" Grids are being tested in Firefox Nightly, behind a feature flag. 1. go to "about:config" 2. toggle "layout.css.grid-template-masonry-value.enabled" 3. try it out! https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4650#issuecomment-620864503 https://codepen.io/mirisuzanne/pen/pojrrMz?editors=1100 (twitter.com/_/status/1255567501359853570)
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[Murray] Does anyone know of an API service which combines IP lookups *and* lat/long lookups? Seems like an obvious combo to me but only finding services that do one or the other...
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@XabCorinti #100DaysOfCode R3|D5 Still going crazy between Bridgy and Webmentions (twitter.com/_/status/1357358256495022086)
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jacky woahhh
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jacky maybe this is a glitch in my setup but I really can't make an event on my site
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jacky it like requires a whole separate table (for quick indexing of particular properties)
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jacky does anyone end up keeping events in the same place as entries on their site?
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aaronpk i do, because posts are just posts regardless of what properties they have
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aaronpk the only sort of special thing about my event posts is that i use the event start time as the published date for sorting and determining the URL
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jacky hmmmm
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jacky I don't know if I want to rework how entries work so it'd be more generic (I kinda hate hyper-generic stuff tbh - makes it a little harder to do type checking)
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jacky _but_ you make a good point re: it being _just_ a post
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jacky might come back to this one
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[schmarty] i had some issues with events on my site. like aaronpk, i use the event start time as the publish date for sorting and for the URL and that required special handling on my hugo setup.
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[schmarty] by default future posts are not published, so i had to enable the ability to allow future posts.
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[schmarty] but then a far-off event like IWS would be my top post until the event was over!Q
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[schmarty] oops typing.
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jacky hmmmm that's something I'd kinda want to support too
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[schmarty] so i updated my main feed to scrub them
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aaronpk Oh yeah I don't put event posts on my home page so I don't have that problem
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[schmarty] and i added a special events feed (and ical subscription option) on my homepage
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jacky hm looks like no one's posted a /listen post before?
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jacky in the sense that it doesn't have any particularly defining attributes
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[schmarty] !
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jacky that and /payments don't
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[schmarty] wait there are lots of examples in there.
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jacky is auditing what post types he'd want
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jacky well I don't see exactly how PTD would work for those examples
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jacky first link is dead too
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[schmarty] mine are marked up similar to how Eddie's are described there. listen-of.
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[schmarty] i'll see about adding myself but here's what i've got https://martymcgui.re/listens/
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jacky hmm I need to not use xray to discover properties, it seems
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jacky using php.microformats.io pulls out those things (like u-listen-of)
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jacky takes down notes
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jacky we _def_ need some sort of markup example on the wiki IMO (since that's more 'guarneeted' to be around)
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jacky it doesn't look any different from a reply or a like tbh
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[schmarty] yeah x-ray is very opinionated
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[schmarty] and by opinionated i mean: it deletes properties that it is not hard-coded to recognize
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[schmarty] that hard-coded vocabulary being whatever aaronpk decides it is :}
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jacky lol which is very fair
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jacky okay so I moved onto workouts
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jacky and the `pk-` strikes again :P
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jacky but it's a good base for me imo
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jacky like https://php.microformats.io/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faaronparecki.com%2Fmetrics%2F2013%2F11%2F28%2F143242%2F is interesting because multiple workouts can be stacked into a singular post
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jacky which is ideal and realistic
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jacky woot okay
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jacky locally updating my PTD definition
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[Raphael_Luckom] Just finished instructions for deploying a serverless blog system on AWS: https://raphaelluckom.com/posts/practitioner_journey_004.html
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jacky okay I don't know if this is more for #microformats or here
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jacky re: follow posts, how would one consider marking up attributes of a follow?
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jacky like I can just follow [tantek] but what do y'all think I should do/say to say "I follow [tantek] and [benatwork] and consider them to be developers?"
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jacky riffing off how Facebook has lists for following and Twitter (indirectly)
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jacky they don't really 'surface' that to people though
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jacky _however_ SSB does broadcast follows and allows you to tag them (anything can be tagged, even blocks IIRC)
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[schmarty] what is follow?
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Loqi follow is a common feature (and often UI button) in silo UIs (like Twitter) that adds updates from that profile (typically a person) to the stream shown in an integrated reader, and sometimes creates a follow post either in the follower's stream ("… followed …" or "… is following …") thus visible to their followers, and/or in the notifications of the user being followed ("… followed you") https://indieweb.org/follow
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jacky is also reading https://indieweb.org/follow#Brainstorming
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jacky this is what I'm spending lunch doing lol
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[schmarty] kind of surprised we don't have examples with tags / categories, which is where my mind went first
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jacky yup!
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jacky this could be a whole session tbh
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jacky > The biggest difference between following and friending is that to follow does not require an agreement between both parties where as friending does. Following is an asymmetrical relationship, where as friending is symmetrical.
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jacky that bit from the page makes me think on it more
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[schmarty] ooh, but, maybe i should start with: what's use cases are you trying to get at with follow posts?
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jacky good question - I do want to capture all of the things I'm following on _my site_ to make it easier to get a holistic view of what comes in
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jacky granted, this could be also done from a microsub client but since it focuses (IIRC) more on the feeds than on the people/person in question, I think it wouldn't be the place to focus on
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[schmarty] ah that is interesting. these days (after the Respectful Responses popup but also generally thinking about privacy and abuse targeting) i have been thinking more and more of these things as purely personal
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[schmarty] so thinking of it as a "reader thing" resonates with me. microsub doesn't have anything in the protocol (outside of channels) for like meta-management of feeds.
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[schmarty] but outside of channels i would love to be able to tag feeds, and person-tag feeds, and organization-tag feeds.
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jacky right! like tbh I'd want it to be a way to 'automatically' add people into channels in a microsub client
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[schmarty] that's an interesting idea. what parts would be automatic? like: you give the reader a feed and it says "how about i add this to the IndieWeb channel because I see (keywords in the author h-card or common tags on posts or lots of links to indieweb.org or...)"?
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[schmarty] or more like automatic subscriptions that get picked up as you do other things? like if someone you're following posts a bookmark, maybe the reader follows that bookmark to see if the site has a feed and adds it to a suggestions channel"?
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jacky was jumping into a meeting
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jacky so tbh it _shouldn't_ be automatic at first - if possible, I'd want Vouch to play a bit of a role here (maybe auto follow friends of a friends or people you talk to a lot)
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jacky but the act of a reader seeing someone have a follow post and even prompting "Follow" and maybe having options on what feed to follow (I tend to expose a few different types of feeds so that could be surfaced as an option)
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jacky I think I'm going to just start with having my follow posts be present on my site (but making my site default to making them either unlisted or private)
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[schmarty] does that feature require the folks that you follow to explicitly publish posts about who they follow, though? i feel like any post from someone-you-follow that is a "response" to a post from someone-you-don't-follow could be a starting point.
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jacky hmm good question
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[KevinMarks] This is an interesting opposite of the block chain tool for twitter where you block everyone who follows someone (unless you already follow them)
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jacky and I think it might
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jacky [KevinMarks]: right - got inspiration from [tantek]'s earlier comment re: inviting the city
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[schmarty] (tbh i am definitely trying to nudge away from things like "let me publicly post a list of things i read so that you may draw conclusions about me")
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[schmarty] or rather the *people* i read, since that is really the kind of association i feel is used for abuse.
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[tantek] both are rife yes
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[tantek] re: following & tagging/lists. I kinda view them as orthogonal
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[tantek] you may follow people. you may also tag people. you may also follow tags. those aren't the same thing
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[tantek] like I might follow someone just because I met them (no tags need. or maybe I start with "met" lol)
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[tantek] OR I might happen across a noisy account (say a journalist, or a livetweeter) who is otherwise "interesting" to me for a number of reasons, so I may tag them, but not follow them
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[tantek] and this "tagging" of people has very different social implications based on whether the tags are public or private (like actually private only visible to you)
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[tantek] Twitter lists are public tags of people. Aperture "categories" are private tags of people.
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[KevinMarks] twitter lists are used for abuse too
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[tantek] yes, one of the problems with being able to publicly tag other people
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@jamesvandyne Started working on my login screen so I can add support for IndieAuth and Micropub in Tanzawa. https://tanzawa.jamesvandyne.com/c1bd966f-351b-4656-aa67-7a01bd44feab (twitter.com/_/status/1357445717283905536)
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[KevinMarks] yeah, I wrote a warning about that to Google Contacts at one point
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[KevinMarks] 'do not reveal what name people put you in their contacts'
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[tantek] hah indeed
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[KevinMarks] we built an experimental thing there that browsed between people's top contacts. It was the creepiest thing ever, we destroyed it with fire. I suspect Vic had someone else build it offshore
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