#dev 2021-02-08

2021-02-08 UTC
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@dev_nikema Webmentions – let’s go! https://nikemaprophet.com/webmentions-lets-go/?utm_source=ReviveOldPost&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=ReviveOldPost (twitter.com/_/status/1358579770984960008)
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[fluffy] trying to differentiate “City of London” from “London” gets into pretty firm NLP territory
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[fluffy] “London” vs. “Londoner” is relatively easy,that’d just be something like `/[^a-zA-Z]London[^a-zA-Z]/`
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GWG NLP?
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GWG [fluffy]: I'm trying to do the world.
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GWG My only play is to try to get it as close as possible and fix anything else manually.
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GWG The same way I fix my MP3 collection
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[fluffy] natural language processing
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[fluffy] properly tagging MP3s is one of those intractable computer science problems
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GWG I'm just going to say for now that if: There is only one region in a country that has the word London in it already, assume it is that one.
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GWG Same with only one London as a Locality in a region.
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GWG If there are two, it won't.
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GWG So, my solution to multiple Londons in a region is that I have to make sure I note both of them, if I visited both of them
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jacky I had a super random idea
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GWG jacky: Share?
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jacky to change the color of my site depending on what I'm listening to or watching
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GWG I briefly thought about making a Pinky and the Brain reference there by saying something completely insane, but...
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GWG jacky: That would be fun
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GWG Disco site
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jacky basically haha!
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jacky there's a JS library that's a port of the Android Palette library
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jacky I think I might use that to tweak CSS properties to do it
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jacky but accessibility is my concern here
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jacky like it'd be easy for Speed of Sound by Coldplay
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GWG That can be problematic
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GWG Have a toggle that shifts it into something else.
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jacky yeah - I'm thinking about making it opt-in _or_ only doing it for specific albums/colorschemes that pass an automated WCAG check
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GWG As long as the site is usable by all, there's always the possibility some visual elements might not be usable by all.
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jacky yup
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GWG I always try to balance the two
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GWG And I'm hoping people can help me with the accessibility.
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GWG I know [arush] was looking the other day.
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jacky this is the library https://jariz.github.io/vibrant.js/
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[KevinMarks] like how android changes the homescreen to the album cover of what is being played?
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jacky yup
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jacky normally it'd be this page
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[KevinMarks] theres a new contrast model under development - see https://www.myndex.com/APCA/
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jacky https://developer.android.com/reference/kotlin/androidx/palette/graphics/Palette
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jacky but it's 503'ing under Firefox
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GWG [KevinMarks]: When do you sleep?
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GWG Just..isn't it late there?
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jacky need to continue updating this library https://hexdocs.pm/indieweb/0.0.49/IndieWeb.html
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jacky wanna expermint with AutoAuth support in it
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jacky and then get the PKCE bits nuzzled in
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[KevinMarks] yes, 3am. I was doing some db changes in prod so doing those at the witching hour is usually a good idea
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[KevinMarks] though now I'm waiting for a new fault message to come in to check my changes stuck
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GWG I'll just continue trying to solve British location problems.
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@Aranjedeath Webmentions: Enabling Better Communication on the Internet https://alistapart.com/article/webmentions-enabling-better-communication-on-the-internet/ > So will @twitter's embrace of the distributed web result in them being the single largest Webmentions installation on the face of the planet? (twitter.com/_/status/1358620258752339971)
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[KevinMarks] we do have lots of them. Like 2 different county durhams
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@mdrockwell Is h-card the markup needed to get Webmentions using your name, URL, and a proper avatar? I just added that to https://mike.rockwell.mx/. So I guess I’ll see soon enough. (twitter.com/_/status/1358633187128279042)
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marinin[t] good morning everyone
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marinin[t] we started a thing where we spontaneously translate some pages on wiki to Russian; is there a list of "most important articles"? iirc, wikipedia.org has something like that.
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saptaks can someone point me to some resource of hosting my own webmentions endpoint instead of using webmentions.io ?
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petermolnar hi saptaks, examples from https://indieweb.org/Webmention-developer#Libraries: https://github.com/zerok/webmentiond , https://github.com/pear2/Services_Linkback , https://wordpress.org/plugins/webmention/
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saptaks petermolnar, thanks!! I will look into these
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petermolnar but in essence, it is extremely simple: you have to accept POST requests in your desired endpoint. The incoming data will have a source=$SOURCE and a target=$TARGET , and that is all the webmention itself. From there, one can go and fetch the $SOURCE and save it as a comment for $TARGET.
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petermolnar a long time ago I wrote an alternative wordpress plugin - warning, it's outdated - but I think it can help seeing the minimal tech setup for receiving webmentions: https://github.com/petermolnar/wp-webmention-again/blob/master/receiver.php#L203
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saptaks petermolnar, will check that
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bhavin192 saptaks, I was thinking about doing something similar, have checked https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention.io I haven't tried finding deployment related docs yet.
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bhavin192 s/have/have you
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Loqi [aaronpk] webmention.io: Easily enable webmentions and pingbacks on any web page
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saptaks bhavin192, I did check. That That's more a solution to accept webmentions for any site. It's great! But I am kind of looking into more self contained endpoint.
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saptaks Really kind of browsing through options to see which best suits my needs
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bhavin192 saptaks, ah, got it. I might look into it later some day. :D
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@raymondcamden of course, since I said I was going to remove Disqus, I checked my stats, and it looks like I actually had 236 comments last year. I still think I'd get more "responses" via webmentions though (twitter.com/_/status/1358791103491821570)
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@filipacro ↩️ testing testing 2. latest test, I promise. Adding webmentions to my blog. (twitter.com/_/status/1358793522388811778)
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@initialcharge Webmention https://initialcharge.net/2021/02/webmention/ (twitter.com/_/status/1358792755305152512)
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aaronpk I do feel like there's been a lot more excitement around webmention in the last couple months
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GWG aaronpk: That's a good thing, how can we capitalize on it
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@filipacro OK! Finally added webmentions to my English blog. Check them out the link below and reply here for a test :D thanks https://pacurar.dev/hello-world-welcome-to-my-english-blog/ (twitter.com/_/status/1358800188652027904)
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@joshghent Setup IndieAuth and microformats2 (mf2) to my posts. Next up is getting Tweets, RSVP's and Github to my site #indieweb https://joshghent.com (twitter.com/_/status/1358821975565742086)
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@joshghent This is awesome. Looking forward to deploying this when I get Webmentions setup! (twitter.com/_/status/1358825815178371083)
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jacky GWG: do we have to capitalize on it? :P
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jacky kinda curious what people think of it without too much intervention
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GWG jacky: No, just thought maybe we might think of some webmention projects of our own.
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GWG I know I have that big one with pfefferle
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jacky ahh yeah
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aaronpk i for one would like to see more webmention receiver projects like webmention.io
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[snarfed] also more backfeed!
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aaronpk tbh this is one of the strengths and weaknesses of the indieweb right now, a lot of the most exciting functionality is provided by very few services (bridgy, webmention.io), and we actively acknowledge it and try to advocate for more alternatives to be created. whereas in the mastodon world it's extremely focused around individual projects and there tends to be less excitement around plurality of a
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aaronpk particular project type. I'm thinking things like "*the* youtube alternative" and "*the* instagram alternative" rather than having a bunch of projects all pop up with similar and overlapping functionality
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petermolnar well, there's the lovely activitypub protocol...
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aaronpk i say it's a weakness for us only because we *could* position it that way instead and likely grow more excitement around it, and i *could* try to actively improve webmention.io instead of intentionally limiting it to encourage others to build better ones
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[KevinMarks] that's interesting - so should the different webmention tools try to converge or diverge?
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aaronpk converge on the parts that require interop, diverge in functionality
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aaronpk e.g. the webmention analytics project, i think it'd be super if that were actually a full webmention receiver project that also provided those analytics
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[KevinMarks] I feel like we could maybe converge the 'received webmentions api' format a bit more for the receiver services, but for a library designed to be inside a dev env those may be less relevant
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@mdrockwell Just added an h-card to the footer of http://mike.rockwell.mx. I’m hoping that’s all that’s necessary to get Webmentions to include an avatar image. https://mike.rockwell.mx/asides/780 (twitter.com/_/status/1358834542950375431)
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@mxbck looking into "eleventyComputed" to generate reports for https://github.com/maxboeck/webmention-analytics, but it seems like computed data ca… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1358832805485117446 (twitter.com/_/status/1358832805485117446)
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petermolnar it's sort of shocking for me how many people are looking for ready baked solution for "receiving webmentions" whereas in reality all it takes to "receive" is to accept an incoming POST. The rest is not strictly part of "receiving", is it?
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aaronpk well
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aaronpk people aren't looking for just how to receive incoming webmentions
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aaronpk they're looking for the full receive webmention and show comment experience
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aaronpk and they call it "receiving webmentions"
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aaronpk i believe schmarty wrote something about this
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petermolnar but how does anyone expect a solution like that _without_ a service, like webmention.io, for static sites?!
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@joshghent ↩️ Inspired by yourself actually! So thank you :) I couldn't find (with my google-fu) how you syndicate books you've read - that's super neat! Maybe an idea for a http://Brid.gy silo?... (twitter.com/_/status/1358837952110071811)
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jacky petermolnar: it's the whole "everything is a service" era of things
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petermolnar envisions cinderblock as a service
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[Murray] also, because Webmentions are frequently presented as the indie alternative to things like Disqus. Disqus works that way (a "drop it in and it works" service) so surely webmentions do to, right?
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jacky ^ that's very valid and literally what I've seen more people 'jump' to
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petermolnar yes. with webmentions.io. with a service, like disqus
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jacky if anything (sadly), it's the easiest example to make
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[schmarty] hello my post has been summoned https://martymcgui.re/2020/07/15/what-we-talk-about-when-were-talking-about-webmentions/
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jacky lol [schmarty]++
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Loqi [schmarty] has 7 karma in this channel over the last year (58 in all channels)
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aaronpk webmention << https://martymcgui.re/2020/07/15/what-we-talk-about-when-were-talking-about-webmentions/
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Loqi ok, I added "https://martymcgui.re/2020/07/15/what-we-talk-about-when-were-talking-about-webmentions/" to the "See Also" section of /Webmention https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=74530&oldid=74461
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jacky agh you beat me to it aaronpk
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jacky I was checking if it was on the page first
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aaronpk i knew it wasn't cause i had already looked there for it :)
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[schmarty] i should have added it earlier!
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Loqi I agree
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jacky squints inquistively at Loqi
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jacky do you _really_?
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GWG Every time someone links to [schmarty] I get that classic blac and white pose
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jacky I feel like it's a semi-bad idea to _not_ allow PKCE in my site anymore but I _really_ don't want to handle backcompat tbh
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GWG jacky: Did you see jamietanna[m]'s consent screen way of educating people?
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jacky I haven't
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jacky is it on /consent_screen?
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jacky checks
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jacky looks like it
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jacky https://indieweb.org/consent_screen#Jamie_Tanna
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jacky hm I don't want that
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jacky like tbh
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jacky I kinda wanna just fail out altogether
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jacky it's a bit aggressive of an approach but like I don't _want_ to handle it in my site
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jamietanna That's fair - I've left it as I wasn't sure how quickly certain apps (including my own) would take to move, so didn't wanna force me out of being able to use a thing
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aaronpk same
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GWG I was thinking of highlighting it, but not with an action message
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@joshghent ↩️ Oh nice that’s cool! I don’t have micropub setup (what is it for?). Main remaining tasks are setting up twitter ~> site syndication and visa versa. I think http://brid.gy can do it but think I need to write custom code to create new posts for it? (twitter.com/_/status/1358869174307725316)
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aciccarello[m] [schmarty]: i love the "I've tired myself out" section 😆
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@mdrockwell Alright, I checked in the https://indiewebify.me/ validator and the h-card appears to be working properly now. So let me just test to see if I can send myself a Webmention with all the proper info. https://mike.rockwell.mx/asides/799 (twitter.com/_/status/1358880004248059904)
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@JamieTanna ↩️ So Micropub is the open standard that allows you to use a wealth of clients (https://indieweb.org/Micropub/Clients) to publish to your site. Twitter -> site Webmentions can be done with Bridgy. If you want to publish to Twitter from your site, you'll want something… https://www.jvt.me/mf2/2021/02/auyd3/ (twitter.com/_/status/1358881968256081920)
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jacky do we have a different way of doing syndication that doesn't necessarily require the webmention flow we have right now?
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jacky er, more specifically
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jacky the most popular form I've seen is doing it via Webmentions
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aaronpk yea! via micropub
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jacky OH yeah
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jacky I actually never considered that flow
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aaronpk RIP silo.pub
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jacky so it'd be like "pick a post", hit Syndicate and then it'd update the corresponding field with the resulting URL?
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aaronpk oh i just mean that the syndication service acts like a micropub endpoint
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jacky hmm I might need to read more on it then
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/2016/11/29/7/syndication
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] Just installed my own copy of https://silo.pub and launched at https://silopub.p3k.io! Thought I'd share a screencast of how I configure my syndication endpoints in p3k. https://aaronparecki.com/img/1240x0/2016/11/29/7/photo.jpg [video]
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jamietanna I'm also interested in this :)
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aaronpk once it's set up, my website makes a micropub request to the service, then updates the post with the syndicated url
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jacky interesting
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jacky I'm guessing https://silopub.p3k.io/ is only tweaked for you too lol
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jacky wait no it's still around(-ish)? https://github.com/kylewm/silo.pub
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aaronpk the nice thing is it makes it easy to set up my website to syndicate anywhere silopub can send to without having to add custom logic
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jacky hmmmm I like this a lot
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Loqi [kylewm] silo.pub: Micropub bridge for hosted blogs
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jacky okay this is it
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aaronpk i prefer that model way more than the webmention model tbh
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jacky I'm still trying to get more info re: Twitter about this kind of syndication stuff in their new world
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jacky yeah same - it's less of an overload of webmention
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jacky like I implemented async webmentions to _avoid_ mixing up the logic too much
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aaronpk it also means i can syndicate private posts if i want, and get more flexibility in customizing the content for the syndication destination
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jacky this would slightly simplify some of my syndication code too
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aaronpk like i swap out @-mentions of domain names for twitter usernames on the twitter copy
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jacky once I get baseline webmention support merged from lighthouse to lwa, I think this'll be the other thing I work on
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jacky trying to consolidate this stuff into one app so it's a bit more self-service
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jacky I guess my next thought is like when your site sees a `mp-syndicate-to` that points to silo.pub, it checks it to see if it has a Micropub endpoint shown on it _or_ a Webmention one and acts with that
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aaronpk yeah, in that screencast you can see all the configured syndication targets i have, some are webmention and some are micropub
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jacky wow never mind: https://silopub.p3k.io/developers lol
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jacky wow it even has Goodreads support
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jacky hmm now I wonder if I should move this into a separate service
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[schmarty] whew that webmentions post of mine needed some proofreading! 7 months after publishing is better than never, right?
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jacky was saving the name 'Cabal' for something like this, lol
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aaronpk yeah i don't have all the api keys on mine which is why only some of the icons show up on the home page
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jacky [schmarty]: lol like fine wine
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jacky okay I think I _fully_ get it now especially via Micropub
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jacky in order to do it like that, you take the original post, destruct it into mf2 and then use that as the properties to send to the syndication endpoint via Micropub
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jacky _that_ makes a tremendous amount of sense and it's like very future-proof
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jacky because if it doesn't support it, it can ignore it
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aaronpk yep and if your storage isn't based on mf2 then you don't even have to worry about mf2-ing it at all, just treat silo.pub as an API and read the API docs for it
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jacky yup!
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jacky (although going mf2-y seems to make it a bit easier to abstract; depending on the resilency of the syndication endpoint's ability to resolve things)
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jacky like if it did PTD against the incoming properties, then it could know exactly what to work with
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jacky wow I wish I knew of this sooner lol
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[KevinMarks] hm, given that silo.pub is now another kind of website entirely we may need to rename the project
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aaronpk the downside of naming the project after the domain name *ahem* webmention.io
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[KevinMarks] well, I think we came up with the name first then kyle bought it
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[KevinMarks] it was feverdream before
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[KevinMarks] http://www.kevinmarks.com/hwc2015-06-03.html
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club 2015-06-03
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jacky I need to do something similar to this for the next hwc tbh
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[KevinMarks] about 1:20 into this Leo explains Quill and silo.pub to Jeff https://twit.tv/shows/this-week-in-google/episodes/301
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[KevinMarks] 1:28 is first use of silo.pub
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@mdrockwell Setup a page on https://mike.rockwell.mx/ to accept Webmentions when someone links to the homepage. I have no idea if this will ever be useful. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (twitter.com/_/status/1358913270577520642)
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