#dev 2021-02-16

2021-02-16 UTC
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GWG How does this look? https://wpdev.gwg.us/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Screenshot-from-2021-02-15-19-14-24.png
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GWG Compared to the old one... https://indieweb.org/images/3/3c/wordpress_indieauth_consent_screen.png
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[KevinMarks] Good thread here, some helpful stuff from Simon https://twitter.com/brianleroux/status/1361438298497945600?s=20
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@brianleroux what is THE serverless solution for full text search ? (don't want to provision 'instances'. pls!) (twitter.com/_/status/1361438298497945600)
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jacky why does everything _need_ to be serverless?
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KartikPrabhu I think of it more as "cloudful"
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jacky lmfao
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[KevinMarks] it's such a bad name for it when "functional" was right there
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jacky I'm starting to wonder what other kind of things I can show in my consent screen
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jacky like if an app is known to exist on the Wiki, I wonder if I could show info about people that I follow / have in my contacts list that are marked as users
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GWG jacky: I'm working on mine right now.
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jacky I'm about to get to mine sometime tomorrow night!
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jacky I had to punt my game backfeed thing until mid-March, to get PKCE stuff in first
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jacky ^ that's something I _really_ want
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GWG I just got inspired by some of the conversations
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aaronpk Did bridgy stop sending webmentions for replies to replies? There's defnitely a bunch of replies to things I expected to see that aren't showing up
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[snarfed] huh, not that i know of
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[snarfed] got an example?
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@fortysevenfx ↩️ Webmentions ? https://www.learnwithjason.dev/webmention-next-js/ @jlengstorf (twitter.com/_/status/1361622876022059011)
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Zegnat What are people's thoughts on “remember this” options on the consent screen? I have been toying with that. E.g. if I granted the indieweb wiki to authenticate me (that is no scopes) and I store the client and redirect URLs, I want it to skip the consent screen next time this same request is done and just let it through.
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sknebel I've been thinking about indicating if and how the request differs from previous ones
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@ArtPunkDude <a href="https://brid.gy/publish/twitter"></a><a href="https://brid.gy/publish/mastodon"></a> This is absolutley positively the single most awesome explanation of the IndieWeb I've seen to date. Love it and Love your Site! https://briefs.video/videos/why-the-indieweb/ (https://artpunk.net/2021/lta-hrefquotpublishmastodonquotgtltagtlta-hrefquotpublishtwitterquotgtltagtthis-is-absolutley-positively-the) (twitter.com/_/status/1361662396557844483)
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aaronpk [snarfed]: well, for one, this tweet has 17 QTs but only one came through https://aaronparecki.com/2021/02/14/24/bitcoin
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aaronpk And then simonw's reply has a ton of replies to it and they didn't come through either
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aaronpk I expected most of them to be sent as webmentions to my original post because of the threading thing bridgy does
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[snarfed] right! will look
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jamietanna GWG looks good - I'm partial to my solution of only showing PKCE when it's absent, with a warning, but I get why you and others have gone with show it
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jamietanna Any thoughts around showing all the scopes the server supports (or at least `draft`)?
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jamietanna Zegnat I'm not sure I want to ever have implicit consent, even for my own tooling, but I get where you're coming from - I'd definitely be interested in having a "you granted this x days ago for `create`..."
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Zegnat I think it may also be different between grants (where scopes and longer lived tokens are involved) or simply authentication (such as logging in to the wiki or Telegraph or similar apps)
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jamietanna yes that's fair
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aaronpk i'm not quite happy with how my site currently handles it, i need to tweak it a bit. I think I want logging in to bypass the consent screen after the first time i log in to something
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aaronpk right now if an app requests the same scope and all the other things are the same too it will bypass the consent screen the second time, which I think I also like
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jamietanna I wonder if doing it with a "remember for x days" sort of thing is better instead of forever?
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aaronpk that might be a nice balance
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Zegnat Re scopes: I always show the profile and email scopes, but that’s it. Though that is primarily because my IndieAuth endpoint does not know about the existence of any other scopes...
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jamietanna that sounds good - would you do it based on what you allowed it to have, or what was requested? the former, I guess, in case you added `drafts`
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jamietanna (or removed anything)
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GWG jamietanna: I made a few more revisions after that, need to take a new screenshot.
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GWG I may not approve any scopes I don't know about and instead put a warning
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GWG "Blah - Server does not recognize this permission request and cannot approve it."
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jamietanna sounds good - I've added an "unknown" section, but may make it more visible that they're not known about. Wouldn't that make it difficult for experimenting with new scopes though?
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GWG jamietanna, why? It just says the server won't approve the Blah scope..not the other scoped
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GWG How can you grant a permission you don't know about?
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jamietanna So up until yesterday, my server didn't understand the `channels` scope because I'd just not added a mapping, but I still allowed myself to approve it so I could use apps
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jamietanna It's a fair shout though - it's not a great UX to allow a user to allow something that could be super dangerous if you don't know what it is
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aaronpk scope can't really do anything unless your server is enforcing it
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aaronpk in other words, if you ignore scope completely, that's the same as allowing it
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GWG Yes, I just am thinking of the user
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GWG A message could encourage a user to notify the developer of the new scope.
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jamietanna fair
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GWG I'm not sure I'd do it. I think right now I only put a description next to scopes I know about, I don't have a default message
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GWG The middle ground is allow approval, but note the server doesn't recognize this scope
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Zegnat Not sure there are any good WordPress examples, but say you are using an Aperture instance to host your Microsub server. WP does not know anything about Microsub scopes. But if I am using WP IndieAuth to login to my Microsub client I still want to be able to grant that client Microsub scopes to send to Aperture.
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Zegnat My reason for allowing scopes I do not know about: the server hosting my indieauth endpoint may not know about it, but the token is going to be used when communicating with a different server and that one needs it.
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Zegnat Aperture might be a bad example, not sure it supports external indieauth providers, but hopefully you get what I meant :)
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GWG Zegnat: It actually does. I added all the scopes for Microsub...it just doesn't reflect anything internally if you are using Aperture
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Zegnat (brb, time to walk home)
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GWG For publishing tools, it maps to WordPress capabilities
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GWG Also, there's a way for the Aperture plugin to tell Indieauth about scopes it knows about
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GWG Either way, doing some additional Indieauth plugin work this week
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GWG I need to add a cleanup job to check for expired tokens and auth codes
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@jkup I wrote a post on how I got Webmentions working as comments on my Gatsby site https://jonkuperman.com/gatsby-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/1361720687161925632)
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btrem Against all good sense, I'm going to attempt to get webmentions working on my 11ty site. I've read and will probably use as my guide this:
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btrem https://sia.codes/posts/webmentions-eleventy-in-depth/
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btrem Unless anyone want to warn me off that page.
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Loqi [Sia Karamalegos] An In-Depth Tutorial of Webmentions + Eleventy
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[Murray] @btrem: if you're going for 11ty, I'd also recommend looking at some of what Max Böck has written. Sia's piece is great, Max has some useful things around the edges, like cache control: https://mxb.dev/blog/persistent-build-folders-netlify/
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[Murray] (with the caveat that you're also using Netlify; might work on something like Vercel too)
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btrem I'm not using Netlify. I have a shared hosting account using control panel.
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btrem The freenode notification that I had been mentioned here actually interrupted me from looking up when that control panel/shared hosting account expires. I'm trying to decide if I should move to Netlify.
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[Murray] well, I can certainly recommend it, particularly if you're using a build tool like 11ty, Gatsby, Next etc.
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[Murray] it's a very simple (and pretty much free) setup and process
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[Murray] the downside of course is limited server-side functionality, so running something like a CMS becomes tricky
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[Murray] really depends on what you're currently using the hosting for 🙂
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btrem A static site built with 11ty, then uploaded via sftp. And email.
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btrem So if I ditch the shared hosting account for Netlify, I'd need an email provider.
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jamietanna btrem it may be possible to have both? email through shared hosting, but website through Netlify?
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btrem Yeah, I thought about that. I could just pay for the shared hosting account but only use email, and not the web server.
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btrem If nothing else, I could not wait until the account expires, but rather give Netlify a test drive now.
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jamietanna can you try Netlify for a subdomain maybe? Or even just on netlify.app (i.e. not linked to your identity for now)
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jamietanna I've used Zoho.eu for years for my email hosting, and it's been really great - free hosting for a personal domain too :D
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btrem I know next to nothing about Netlify; so I don't know what netlify.app is!
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btrem A subdomain is a good idea. Hmm. I wonder how good my dns skills are....
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btrem zoho email looks scary. Is that a dedicated email app I see in screenshots on their site?
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jacky took that time when adding in PKCE support for 'decorators' on the auth flow
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jacky now I can 'enhance' what things to look for an app
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jacky I'm thinking about hints for links to a native app and if it's on the Wiki
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btrem On a broad level, when deploying a site to Netlify via GitHub, does one commit finished html files (e.g., the output of an 11ty build) and Netlify copies the files? Or does one commit the templates to GitHub, and Netlify runs 11ty in some fashion and create the files and serve them?
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[schmarty] Netlify is pretty flexible. i think in general folks commit the templates and content to Github and Netlify runs the build and serves the result.
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btrem That is a pretty cool way to do things.
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[schmarty] i've been tempted to switch over to netlify several times! my website runs in a nearly-identical way. updates to git trigger a notification to a process that pulls down the updates, rebuilds the site, pushes the updated compiled files where they will be served, sends webmentions, ...
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jamietanna sorry btrem - netlify.app is the default hosting for Netlify if you don't bring your own domain :)
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btrem Oh! Not some phone app then!
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[schmarty] all things i could port to work with netlify + functions (or its competitors)
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jamietanna zoho email is pretty nice when I've used it - it's hosted email, but they have a tonne of other services (primarily business focussed)
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jamietanna Netlify usually runs the build process for your app, and then uploads the built files to their CDN
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btrem I'm leery of an email service that doesn't have normal smtp and imap so that I can use my own email client. Though I don't *love* Thunderbird, it's better than anything else I'm aware of.
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jacky yeah
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jacky like I use Geary now and it's really unpowered (like no cal integration) but thunderbird is the best there is
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jamietanna Zoho has SMTP + IMAP :)
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btrem So I don't have to use their email client?
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jamietanna nope
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jamietanna it's a hosting service - the only thing you'd have to use is their web client, otherwise you've got other clients like Thunderbird etc
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jamietanna Netlify is pretty great, I only migrated away from it cause of cost for building my site so often
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btrem What do you use now? And how often were you building your site?
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jamietanna I've just moved to AWS hosting the static content out of S3 with CloudFront in front as a CDN
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jamietanna I build anywhere between 20 and 100 times a day, and each build is > 120s which costs a lot after you go over Netlify's free builds
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jacky is there any reason why we haven't made a list of 'potential' scopes on the Wiki?
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jacky oooh never mind
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jacky https://indieweb.org/scope
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jacky hm I kinda wish it was linkable somehow
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jamietanna what you thinking Jacky re linkable?
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jamietanna So your consent screen can explain it, or?
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jacky something like https://indieweb.org/scope#create
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jacky to hint at what this scope _could_ enable
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jacky but yeah, both for explaining and giving people a bit more context
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jamietanna that's fair
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jamietanna I'm trying to keep the descriptions all in-server, but I really like your idea of "which of my friends are using this"
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jacky oh that's a bit more out of the way, I would look for a link to the wiki from the app's homepage and check that it has the same name as the app, then look for #Examples and pull out h-cards
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GWG We need to update the scope page now that profile is official
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jamietanna Are these things we think that are worth documenting in the spec, instead of just on the wiki?
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jamietanna Also think I've asked about this before - should we add some official documentation for stable Micropub extensions, as closed issues are a bit harder to grok, especially when looking for expected request/response
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GWG jamietanna: I think the spec mentions the wiki, doesn't it
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jamietanna I can't see anything on https://indieauth.spec.indieweb.org/ that links to /scope
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jacky GWG: what would make it more official?
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jacky jamietanna: I don't think so
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jamietanna I'd say spec is more official than wiki tbh, as it then says "you should be supporting this if you say you support IndieAuth of this version"
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jacky oh I misunderstood the thing GWG said
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jacky but yeah re: promoting 'profile'
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jacky TIL about https://indieweb.org/Micropub-extensions#Query_for_Media_from_Media_Endpoint
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jacky I got a 404 for a call from testing against Quil
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jacky an interesting feature
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ Given the value that double-entry has created in the economic space since its wide adoption in the modern era, I wonder what additional value backlinks might create for the world? #Webmention (https://boffosocko.com/2021/02/16/55787140/?replytocom=309944#respond) (twitter.com/_/status/1361793871298973700)
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btrem I'm trying to copy a long code block from a page, but when I paste, it is in one very long line. Is there some way to copy code that
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btrem is presented as separate lines and keep the line breaks?
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jbove btrem: what OS are you using?
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jbove Asking because the keyboard key combination to copy - paste without formatting differs between Windows and Mac
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btrem Mac OS. I've never encountered this problem before. I looked at the source code, and it's in span elements, with (presumably) css to create line breaks. I just copied and pasted it line-by-line. Painstaking!
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jbove Interesting. Which browser are you using to check the source code?
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btrem Firefox Dev Edition.
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jbove Can you pass a link to the page of the code you want to copy? Would like to try it myself.
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btrem And web searches return only pages explaining how to preserve line breaks when creating a web page.
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btrem https://sia.codes/posts/webmentions-eleventy-in-depth/
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Loqi [Sia Karamalegos] An In-Depth Tutorial of Webmentions + Eleventy
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jbove btrem: I just borrowed code from Sia the other week. I found it was easier and more complete to actually have a look at her source code which she graciously shared over on Github.
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jbove See https://github.com/siakaramalegos/sia.codes-eleventy/commit/d7318565917b1342b38d6b3bff4e3e548276afca
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btrem Well I didn't think of that, and there was no link in the tutorial. Ah well.
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jbove The link is at the end of the page actually.
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jbove https://sia.codes/posts/webmentions-eleventy-in-depth/#additional-resources
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jbove Hope it helps you further?
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jbove Reminds me that I should add an unique ID to every heading tag on my site's content too actually. hash anchor links are super handy to quickly get to the right section in a page
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btrem ah, under "additional resources". Still wish I could have just copied and pasted like I've done every other time.  :/
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jacky I was thinking more about this older mock-up I had on my site about music rendering
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jacky and I realized I could just have the service like 'update' a property on my homepage that'd show what song is currently playing
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[KevinMarks] @jbove you could use fragmentions, then you get the links automatically working
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jbove will have a look at https://scripter.co/fragmentions/ tomorrow
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