#dev 2021-02-17

2021-02-17 UTC
[snarfed] and Saphire joined the channel
#
@mdrockwell I’ve had https://mike.rockwell.mx for about a month. In that time I’ve published 126 posts and received 150 comments. Webmentions and services that embrace them — like http://Micro.blog — are powerful tools for communication. (twitter.com/_/status/1361840619522457600)
alex11 and [tw2113_Slack_] joined the channel
#
@maetl Has anyone here implemented some sort of catcher/sink/DB backend for the webmention protocol and gotten it running on a live website? Curious to know how challenging it is and any particular pitfalls/quirks to be aware of. (twitter.com/_/status/1361849124581085187)
Seirdy and [fluffy] joined the channel
#
@kevinmarks ↩️ there are several open source ones at https://indieweb.org/Webmention#Publisher_Services I found writing http://mention.tech fairly straightforward; the bit that requires more thought is how you present different kinds of responses https://indieweb.org/responses (twitter.com/_/status/1361854683699027968)
[schmarty] joined the channel
#
Saphire Loqi: I love this XSS/HTML hack in it xD
KartikPrabhu, [snarfed] and [tantek] joined the channel
#
Saphire ...derp I forgot that was a bot
#
GWG Saphire: You thought it was Tom Hiddleston?
#
Saphire ... Well, I thought it was /someone/
#
Saphire Or rather, at least anyone
#
GWG I was kidding.
[KevinMarks] joined the channel
#
[KevinMarks] Saphire - there are some test fro xss in webmention.rocks
#
Saphire Ooh.. nice
#
[KevinMarks] also https://indieweb.org/xss#Test_cases_for_handling_webmention-related_code
#
[KevinMarks] and https://www.npmjs.com/package/webmention-testpinger
KartikPrabhu and [tw2113_Slack_] joined the channel
#
GWG [snarfed]: What would make Bridgy respond with a 400 or a 405?
[snarfed] joined the channel
#
[snarfed] GWG: what kind of request? publish?
#
[snarfed] 400 means your request was invalid somehow. 405 mean the URL doesn’t support that HTTP method
#
GWG [snarfed]: Not sure. https://wordpress.org/support/topic/error-cannot-find-target-link/
#
GWG I tracked the notice, which is unrelated.
#
[snarfed] ok! let me know if you find more details, i can help then
#
GWG [snarfed]: I'm going to see what comes back.
Seirdy, alex11, [jeremycherfas] and gRegorLove_ joined the channel
#
@sealfur ↩️ "11ty webmentions": about four hours ago. (twitter.com/_/status/1361949862061768707)
samwilson, sebbu and coagulatedcowboy joined the channel
#
@ArtPunkDude <a href="https://brid.gy/publish/twitter"></a><a href="https://brid.gy/publish/mastodon"></a> I'm Streaming Soon ... Tune In If you Need some Weirdness in you life. https://www.twitch.tv/artpunkdude (https://artpunk.net/2021/im-streaming-soon-tune-in-if) (twitter.com/_/status/1362017228665847817)
coagulatedcowboy, KartikPrabhu, [schmarty], [Rose], [tantek] and [Murray] joined the channel
#
[Murray] For those who syndicate to Twitter, do you have any clever tools or tricks flr
#
[Murray] (whoops!) ... for finding people's Twitter handles? Or is it just search on Twitter + copy'n'paste?
[snarfed] joined the channel
#
[snarfed] [Murray] https://indieweb.org/nicknames-cache ?
#
[tantek] [Murray] I personally keep a text file / address book to look them up.
#
[tantek] the additional challenge is when manually POSSEing to Instagram, going through and changing the handles for people who have *different* handles on Twitter vs IG
#
[tantek] (I'm one such person)
#
[tantek] obviously this is not an ideal solution, just sharing my current manual methods (knowing that better methods are possible)
#
[tantek] and yes if I don't have them / their handle(s) in my address book, then search on Twitter to get that info, add to address book, then copy & paste
#
[Murray] yeah, I'm more likely to @ someone on Twitter I don't know/follow, but have read an article from (for instance). Still, I wonder if I could populate something like that by scraping the handles of people I've liked/retweeted in the past 🤔
#
[Murray] snarfed++ for that link though, looks interesting
#
Loqi snarfed has 27 karma in this channel over the last year (54 in all channels)
test3 joined the channel
#
[tantek] yes, dynamically building a /nicknames-cache from your own posts is a great way to seed it!
test3 and [amy] joined the channel
#
[amy] I am exploring adding POSSE support to my blog, and I was curious if anyone knows of any examples of filtering by post type (ex: only showing blog posts or photos)? Or do most people just have a big unfiltered stream of content from everywhere?
#
[amy] looking for some inspiration, but a lot of blogs I know of are _only_ blog posts or are _only_ a gallery of images. Looking to create some kind of combination but I can’t visualize what the UI would be like in my head, haha
#
[tantek] what is a composite stream
#
Loqi A composite stream is a stream that interleaves multiple types of posts, such as notes and articles https://indieweb.org/composite_stream
#
[tantek] [amy] ^
#
[tantek] and now looking at that page, I think it can use some updates!
#
[tantek] apologies in advance [amy] for any of the examples that don't work as expected
#
GWG I have a composite stream and a special photo stream
gRegorLove joined the channel
#
[tantek] [amy] I've reviewed and updated the examples on /composite_stream 🙂
jamietanna joined the channel
#
jamietanna [Murray] I've documented what I do with https://www.jvt.me/posts/2020/03/22/at-mention-people/ which I do a bit of up-front work to more easily do it / I just add a Twitter URL in a post and my site rewrites it to an @-mention
#
Loqi [Jamie Tanna] Platform-Aware @-mentioning People on my Blog
#
@raymondcamden Forgot to mention, but got Webmentions running on my blog. Thanks to @zachleat - @TheGreenGreek - @jkup and others for sharing how they did it. Nothing is unique in my implementation, but folks can check my blog repo if they want an example. (twitter.com/_/status/1362098476943880193)
KartikPrabhu and [KevinMarks] joined the channel
#
[KevinMarks] This thread keeps getting more interesting. Here's a novel approach to the database tax https://twitter.com/goranopacic/status/1362088332545646594?s=20
#
@goranopacic @__steele @simonw @brianleroux @kevinmarks you should push all database increments to git which will then initiate cicd and pack sqlite db into lambda (twitter.com/_/status/1362088332545646594)
#
[Murray] jamietanna++ thanks, very interesting
#
Loqi jamietanna has 7 karma in this channel over the last year (17 in all channels)
[Ana_Rodrigues], [snarfed], benatkin, [schmarty] and batkin[m] joined the channel
#
[schmarty] snarfed: got logged in as my podcast site: wehavetoask.com - not seeing how to connect Facebook. in the bridgy plugin prefs i see a user page but it says user not found. the sign up link on that page doesn't have a button to connect FB.
silo joined the channel
#
[schmarty] https://media.martymcgui.re/d0/a5/d2/39/2af35a69695a5a6bb44e24057640a6698e952209398708136500c1ce.png
#
[schmarty] i also vaguely recall folks doing the Instagram version of this plugin couldn't use it with Facebook Container so maybe i will wait for the chrome version and keep it simple.
#
[snarfed] [schmarty] thx for the debugging. are you logged into facebook?
#
[snarfed] facebook container support is flaky but mostly worked w/instagram, i’ll check it w/fb now
#
[schmarty] i am signed in as myself (which has access to the wehavetoask.com FB page). i visited the page and one of our posts but i am not 100% sure what i am supposed to be looking for as evidence of bridgy at work.
#
[snarfed] ohhh it doesn’t currently support FB pages, just users
#
[snarfed] i can take the feature request though!
#
[schmarty] a-ha! well in that case i should have disqualified myself. i don't POSSE much to FB at the moment, just posts for this podcast which exists as an FB page. 😬
#
[snarfed] no worries. your profile does have posts! so it’s still useful testing
#
[snarfed] ugh the facebook container issue is so confusing. [schmarty] any chance you could turn that off temporarily and try again?
#
[schmarty] sorry about the container issues! i am reluctant to turn it off while i've got a bunch of tabs open in the middle of my workday but i could set aside some time later this week to try it in FF on another system where I don't have FB container!
jeremych_ joined the channel
#
[snarfed] np! no hurry. thanks!
silo and jeremy joined the channel
#
gRegorLove [snarfed], Chrome extension has been working pretty well with Instagram backfeed, though I noticed some likes not coming through, even though they're from public IG profiles. Not a big deal, but FYI.
#
gRegorLove I do have my IG profile tab open
btrem and posdsoidosap joined the channel
#
[tantek] btrem, when you syndicate a post to another site (like a silo), you may use the "u-syndication" class name on links to such copies
#
[tantek] what is u-syndication
#
Loqi u-syndication is a way to discoverably link from your original posts to syndicated copies on other sites like social media silos https://indieweb.org/u-syndication
#
[tantek] ^ btrem
[chrisaldrich] joined the channel
#
btrem I guess I'm trying to figure out the difference between `u-syndication` and `u-repost-of`.
#
btrem I did look at indieweb first (though it's weirdly hard to find the list of webmention types; lots of "here's how to implement, but it was hard to find the list of types).
#
btrem So this is not really a lazy web request. By which I mean I did some homework.  :)
#
[tantek] one easy difference is that a syndication is a copy of your original post, posted somewhere else for the first time
#
[tantek] whereas a repost is literally posting something *again* someplace
#
[tantek] you can even do both if you like (since Twitter allowed retweeting yourself)
#
[tantek] e.g. you post a note A on your own site, and then syndicate it to Twitter, as post At
#
[tantek] later (a week whatever) you decide you want to repost your own post which you can do, and you post B with a u-repost-of linking to your original post A, and then syndicate that by retweeting At, resulting in retweet Bt
#
btrem Yeah, you sort of lost me. Give me a few minutes to parse those last two comments. Maybe I can untangle it.
#
[tantek] might need a diagram 🙂
#
btrem That seems like a bad thing.  :-o
#
[tantek] nah, sometimes 2 dimensions communicate better than 1 (text)
#
[tantek] in general we could probably use more diagrams, especially flow diagrams that indicate the passage of time
btrem joined the channel
#
[tantek] might even make for a good discussion topic for tonight's HWC Americas, what's the difference between syndicating and reposting? GWG WDYT?
#
btrem I stopped going to those. Maybe I'll attend tonight.
#
btrem Ladies and gentlemen, prepare your charts and diagrams!
#
[tantek] hah! there are some folks here who have implemented both POSSE and reposts and in particular to Twitter
#
[tantek] pretty sure aaronpk has both, though I don't know if he's ever reposting one of his own notes, and then syndicated that as a self-retweet
#
btrem I post an article on a GitHub pages site. A couple of months later, I repost the article -- an adaptation, to be precise, but it's pretty close to the original -- on my own site. I consider the second copy, on my own site, to be canonical -- and have a link rel=canonical on both copies to note that fact.
#
btrem And I add rel=syndication to the copy on my own site pointing to the GH copy.
#
btrem Is there any place for u-repost-of?
#
btrem Or did I get anything wrong here?
#
[tantek] you only need u-repost-of if you implement the user feature of a "repost"
#
btrem I get rel=canonical. Both what it means and how it's useful (telling Google where the canonical copy is, how to add links).
#
[tantek] rel=syndication is deprecated. use class="u-syndication"
#
[tantek] what is u-syndication
#
Loqi u-syndication is a way to discoverably link from your original posts to syndicated copies on other sites like social media silos https://indieweb.org/u-syndication
#
btrem Ok, I can change that. But I have to wonder what the point is? What should a consuming application do with u-syndication?
#
btrem One thing that *would* be useful is to suggest to e.g. search engines that a second copy is explicitly *not* canonical by marking it as a syndication copy from the canonical copy. Perhaps useful where you publish a syndicated copy on a service where you don't control the markup and therefore can't add a canonical link.
#
sknebel syndicating interactions is an example
#
btrem But then, how does a service know that there's a u-syndication link somewhere else? So maybe not useful now that I think about it.
#
[tantek] that's what a permashortlink is useful for
#
[tantek] what is a permashortlink
#
Loqi A permashortlink (abbreviated PSL) is a URL using a short-domain that expands to a permalink; on the IndieWeb, PSLs use personal short domains to expand to the same person's personal domain, thus minimizing the fragility often associated with shortlinks https://indieweb.org/permashortlink
#
[tantek] or rather
[KevinMarks] joined the channel
#
[KevinMarks] Well, they could get a webmention
#
[tantek] what is an original post link
#
Loqi An original post link is a hyperlink from a POSSE copy to its original indieweb post https://indieweb.org/original_post_link
#
[tantek] ^ this
#
[tantek] re: the point of syndication links, see: https://indieweb.org/syndication-link-use-cases
#
[KevinMarks] So if you syndicate to somewhere that accepts webmentions it could use the u-syndication on the webmention to mark your version as canonical.
#
btrem In that case, the place that accepts webmentions would have to be the canonical one, right?
#
btrem I think I'm starting to realize something: If you're not on Twitter/Facebook/Instagram/etc. that cuts out a big part of the usefulness of u-syndication. Maybe u-repost-of, too.
#
[KevinMarks] Not necessarily - you can syndicate to other places, like indie news, or another blog
#
gRegorLove reposts can be from any site, though
#
btrem Yeah, I suppose, but I don't really repost to sites that have "webactions".
#
btrem That's not a bad thing. Not for me, anyways.
#
gRegorLove Not sure I follow. reposts are on your own site
#
btrem Then I guess *I* don't follow.
#
gRegorLove Here's a repost of another indieweb post https://martymcgui.re/2016/11/29/181404/
#
btrem I thought repost was put something on your site, then repost to Twitter/FB/... So the repost is elsewhere.
[snarfed] joined the channel
#
[snarfed] nah, that’s syndication, as mentioned
#
[snarfed] the example of a repost is a reweet _inside_ twitter. we have indieweb-native examples of that on https://indieweb.org/repost#IndieWeb_Examples
#
gRegorLove No, it's you republishing someone else's post on your site. It's like a retweet, but for the whole web. More examples https://indieweb.org/repost#IndieWeb_Examples
#
gRegorLove jinx :)
#
[KevinMarks] Eg this post has syndication links to multiple places http://www.kevinmarks.com/we-like-indieweb-software.html
#
btrem Ah. Ok.
#
Loqi [Kevin Marks] We Like IndieWeb Software 2015-01-16
#
btrem In general, `u-repost-of` is generally to repost what someone *else* has published.
#
[KevinMarks] Tumblr was very repost heavy, before twitter has it. I'm pretty sure mastodon uses it too
#
btrem I write that strawberry ice cream is delicious on my site. Then someone else write that strawberry *is* delicious with `u-repost-of` to my site's note.
#
aaronpk well, if they write their own content, it's not a repost anymore :)
#
aaronpk what is a repost?
#
Loqi A repost on the indieweb is a post that is purely a 100% re-publication of another (typically someone else’s) post. The act of reposting is an umbrella term that covers the general practice of republishing another post typically on the same service or silo, and sometimes across sites https://indieweb.org/repost
#
btrem Ha ha. Ok, not bold markup allowed!
#
btrem In any case, as someone who avoids social media silos, repost probably won't come up for me very often.
#
aaronpk i rarely repost stuff at all, either on silos or my own site