#dev 2021-02-23

2021-02-23 UTC
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jacky btrem: do you mean a Webmention that has a source of different types of posts?
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jacky that's something I've wanted for personal testing for some time now
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btrem jacky: I assume you're referencing my query from yesterday. I am trying to implement webmentions, but I can't really develop a template for them without any data. I guess ideally some way to generate different types of webmentions for arbitrary urls as test data so you can see how scripts and html are working.
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btrem There are excerpts here and there, but it's hard to make sense of them. There are slight differences, I think because they are examples of different queries to e.g. webmentions.io.
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@andi1984 I played with #webmentions last weekend for using them on my blog. A recording is available on https://youtu.be/HaW2DnlL2wk #webdev #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1364198328670412800)
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[KevinMarks] Webmention.rocks will send some
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[KevinMarks] And there are tools linked https://indieweb.org/webmention-implementation-guide that send various types
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[KevinMarks] That was for @btrem
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@threkk ↩️ All comes from a project idea that would need authentication and authorisation. And that means nowadays oauth2. I would like also to support indieauth, which is the same but not the same. At the end, all is a headache. (twitter.com/_/status/1364276694325071878)
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jacky I know that for now, a lot of the tooling and what not assumes a connection to the global Internet but has anyone been curious about expanding into like LAN-y kind of things? Or even like closed networks?
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jacky This is definitely something for me and what I think of but with things like Wireguard (https://www.wireguard.com/), I can see people building mesh networks over the Web (or otherwise) to share things in a closed ecosystem
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jacky it's a bit on the plumbing level but one thing I have affixed to my monitor is that "not everything needs to be public but everything is built assuming otherwise"
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[tantek] what is local development
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Loqi local development is (or local dev, local dev setup) the practice of having a version of your site on your local machine like a laptop that you can use for development purposes, even when offline https://indieweb.org/local_development
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[tantek] ^ jacky
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jacky not for that case
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[tantek] hmm, I misinterpreted "tooling"
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jacky but more like literally crafting a private network where you can permit people access (or it's cooperatively run) to things
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jacky yeah I think I need to flesh it out a bit more but it's a bit on your metaphor re: inviting the city to a party
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jacky it's hard to do that if the visible spectrum _is_ only people you explicitly permit or want to permit
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[tantek] oooh I like that. virtually (still using "the internet" physically), or physically (e.g. a gathering of friends camping in the woods away from cell signals)
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jacky right!
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[tantek] I really should blog about "inviting the whole city to every one of your house parties by default" 😂
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[tantek] I feel like this kind of happen IRL with a FB invite to some teenage girls birthday party in the UK and 1000s of people showed up
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[tantek] happened
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jacky _christ_ lol
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jacky event.visibility = "public" for that one
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[tantek] right, which was apparently the default. I mean it underscores the point with a literal example
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[tantek] who knows why it went "viral"
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[tantek] of course we can also blame Hollywood "highschool" movies in which the "massively overattended house party" is a running trope that's been normalized
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jacky (never really thought about that bit re: Hollywood)
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[tantek] here you go of course there's a link 😂 https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WildTeenParty
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jacky y-i-k-e-s lol
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jacky wow submitting an app to F-Droid requires like 150 GB of free space
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jacky (you more-or-less build and send them your APK into their repo)
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jacky I figure this would have been more automated
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GWG jacky: What app?
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jacky the client app for Fortress
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jacky after doing the stuff for PKCE, I figured I work on it more while it's still fresh in my head
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GWG jacky: Why don't you come tomorrow night and demo the app?
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jacky it's far from ready - it doesn't do anything visually (just talks to the auth endpoint on my machine or whichever is specified)
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jacky it can't handle authorization yet
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jacky but maybe if I get it working before then!
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jacky I should come either way
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Loqi definitely
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GWG jacky: You would be well received
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[tantek] we can talk about city parties lol
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jacky ha fr
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jacky I do want to talk more about protected content but I'll try to be a bit structured about it to respect time
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[tantek] I think it's worth spending a lot of time on protected content
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[tantek] heck I'd like to reframe it as friends & family content
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[tantek] (Flickr kinda does this in their UI)
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jacky makes a note to bring this up
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jacky because the language is probably the most 'complicated' part (what makes something protected? how private/protected is something?)
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[tantek] yup. it has to be grounded in clear communication and creating safety for people imo
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[KevinMarks] flickr separates friends and family as two content scopes
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[KevinMarks] there's a paper on the most common circle names chosen in Google plus: https://static.googleusercontent.com/media/research.google.com/en//pubs/archive/37843.pdf
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[tantek] Google Plus got this wrong by making you pick circles whereas the default should be "friends & family" (not even needing a "circle") and then "public" should have been an explicit "circle"
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[tantek] before I bother with the pdf;dr, how in the heck did they account for the inherent system bias with prenamed circles?
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jacky google plus destroyed my contacts forever too
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jacky like I have 3,000 contacts because it was being 'smart' and pulled everyone from my e-mail
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jacky like I guess the idea was sound
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jacky but probably not within a mega-company that _needs_ to put everything together :)
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[tantek] same. it made Google Contacts nearly useless for me (actually it seems its UI has gotten particularly crappier in recent iterations)
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[KevinMarks] they say “Users joining Google+ are initially presented with a set of four default Circles: Family, Friends, Acquaintances, and Following” and account for the additional ones - most common are 'work' and 'school' or variations of those, then strong or weak tie markers - “The second category, tie strength, included ‘strong ties’ and ‘weak ties’. Circles were deemed ‘strong ties’ if their names applied modifiers such as clos
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[KevinMarks] to common relations such as friends or family. We also included specific relationships such as girlfriend or husband and common slang for close ties (e.g. BFFs). Circles labeled as ‘weak ties’ included words such as other, random, or extended or words otherwise implying limited knowledge about Circle members (e.g. unknown, don’t know, or WTF)”
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[KevinMarks] “Observing the top 10 most common Circle names categorized as ‘Other’ (church, music, google, tech, twitter, photographers, celebrities, news, and relatives) hints that Circles based on topical interest may be common as well.”
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[tantek] social scientists suck for the "strong / weak ties" dichotomy and framing
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[tantek] s/weak tie/seedling tie
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[KevinMarks] NB this was before the full public release during the invitation phase
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[KevinMarks] so 'tech' and 'google' being clusters makes more sense there
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[KevinMarks] the second half of the paper is more qualitative
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[KevinMarks] One thing I remember from when we looked at the clusters in google contacts before this was that people had gendered friend groups fairly often, and more so in languages like French or Spanish where the the amigos/amigas type distinction is more explicit
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jacky aaronpk: random - was telegraph updated to handle PKCE? I figured you did that with Aperture and Monocle but I'm getting issues with Telegraph
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jacky I'm kinda thinking it's me
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jacky hm lol never mind
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jacky tried it again and it worked
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jacky ~phantom authentication~
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aaronpk Doesn't Telegraph bounce you thru indielogin.com?
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jacky not sure - I never see that page; I'm signing in from my site so I figured it doesn't talk to indielogin
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aaronpk Cool I think it'll skip right thru that then if it finds your authorization endpoint
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aaronpk Or not, maybe I'm thinking of a different one
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aaronpk too many projects
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jacky eh, it's working ow
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jacky but if it happens again, I'll see if I can repro it once more and open a ticket with info
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jacky only if it's useful
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GWG aaronpk: What is your next IndieAuth thought, out of curiosity?
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aaronpk i don't know, there's a lot
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GWG aaronpk: Just curious, as it has been a bit since the next gen IndieAuth post.
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[tantek] whispers .rocks
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aaronpk ^^
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@scojjac Not sure why, but the Webmention plugin wasn’t adding the endpoint link to my home page. Manually added it and set up Bridgy and Syndication Links. Really hoping these small steps add up. (https://scojjac.com/?p=804) (twitter.com/_/status/1364335906212225026)
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[tantek] wat
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aaronpk unleashes the bots
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@mlcdf ↩️ Tu as regardé du côté des Webmentions ? https://indieweb.org/Webmention Exemple sur le blog de @nhoizey : https://nicolas-hoizey.com/articles/2020/11/02/enhancing-archives-navigation-step-2/ (twitter.com/_/status/1364342184460378114)
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