#dev 2021-05-05
2021-05-05 UTC
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# 
superkuh It's been working well enough for me.
# sparseMatrix my approach has been kinda one-horse, so far. kinda 'roll your own everything'
# sparseMatrix I'm not really committed to that as a philosophy
# sparseMatrix this is looking attractive: https://indieweb.org/Micropub
# sparseMatrix ...and this, this has got to be either useful or educational for a python guy: https://github.com/bear/python-indieweb
# sparseMatrix or both heh
# sparseMatrix really I am coming to a realization that I could do a lot worse than use some of the very well developed things you folks have already done
# sparseMatrix the thing I cling to as a feature in my current project is the ability to store the content apart from any formatting controls or metadata
# sparseMatrix some variation of markdown is far more accessible to the average person
# sparseMatrix it's also a lot easier to search and to index
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# 
[KevinMarks] The microformats approach is complementary to that - if you do it right you can extract the content from whatever formatting
# [KevinMarks] Markdown is simple until it isn't https://babelmark.github.io/
# [KevinMarks] Yes, that does help a lot compared to https://babelmark.github.io/faq/#what-are-some-examples-of-interesting-divergences-between-implementations
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# [tw2113_Slack_] we're back at that point where we need to explain what RSS is https://www.fixrunner.com/what-is-rss/
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@schestowitz ● NEWS ● #AaronParecki ☞ How to Sign Users In with IndieAuth https://aaronparecki.com/2021/04/13/26/indieauth (twitter.com/_/status/1389807738377617409)
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# [tw2113_Slack_] #thebigtime
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@LifeOfMogwai Okay, this. This is how I'm gonna implement blog comments - https://webmention.io/ (twitter.com/_/status/1389924489253769216)
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# sparseMatrix webmention.io feels like a redesigned silo though - like a single point of failure for everyone's webmentions
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barnabywalters sparseMatrix: most people who use webmention.io are people running sites which wouldn’t otherwise have any webmention support
# barnabywalters and it’s by no means “everyone”
# barnabywalters plenty of the examples on https://indieweb.org/Webmention#IndieWeb_Examples don‘t rely on webmention.io
# barnabywalters seems like we need a section on the wiki explaining why webmention.io isn’t a big problem, it seems to come up often
# sparseMatrix barnabywalters: by 'everyone' I mean 'everyone who uses it' lol
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# sparseMatrix but to be fair, it seems like a lot of those using it are the luminaries of the day
# barnabywalters it’s mostly used by people running static sites which have no way of accepting webmentions themselves, or by people who are still working on their webmention implementation
# barnabywalters of course everyone would ideally host their own webmention endpoint, but it’s also valuable to be able to give people a few lines of HTML and JS that they can add to their static sites and immediately be able to participate in the indieweb
# barnabywalters in a way which is totally interoperable with other webmention implementations
# barnabywalters which isn’t the case with the various other 3rd party comment platforms
# sparseMatrix Ok, I suppose as a programmer I sometimes make assumptions that are probably true only of other programmers
# sparseMatrix I'm currently embroiled in a viforous argument with myself whether I don't want to ditch my whole project and start over, incorporating what I have learned since last week ;)
# sparseMatrix also the sun is shing right on my monitor and I can barely see it, so please forgive the typos
# barnabywalters heh, I know the feeling, I went through several rewrites of my publishing software while we were developing a lot of this stuff
# barnabywalters sparseMatrix: maybe this framing helps: webmention.io is an alternative to disqus which is interoperable with any site using webmentions
# [KevinMarks] And there are others too webmention.herokuapp.com and mention.tech too
# barnabywalters oh cool I didn’t know about mention.tech
# barnabywalters this kinda makes me wonder if it wouldn’t make sense to support sending webmentions to multiple webmention endpoints per page
# barnabywalters that way people could use multiple backends, and there’d be less of a SPOF
# barnabywalters currently the spec is very specific about only having one endpoint per page
# 
@lzsthw ↩️ Yesterday I also mentioned http://IndieWebify.me which helps you make your web apps a part of the Indie Web. What's the Indie Web?
https://indieweb.org
It's the basis for things like:
Bridgy: https://brid.gy
ActivityPub: https://www.w3.org/TR/activitypub/
And others. (twitter.com/_/status/1389942823051485185)
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[schmarty] barnabywalters: a site owner could set up a webmention repeater that pings multiple backends. that wouldn't require a change to the spec or put extra burden on senders.
# barnabywalters [schmarty]: true, good idea
# sparseMatrix [schmarty] maybe use the one that responded quickest
# barnabywalters I might set that up
# sparseMatrix I'm kinda torn right now
# sparseMatrix I very much want to do my own thing -- I'm capable, and I really get a lot of satisfaction from using my own tools
# barnabywalters oh dear, saying that indieweb is the basis for activitypub might irritate some people
# sparseMatrix but I can also see where I could cleanly integrate some of the libraries and some of the test suites' code and come up with something really serviceable that is decidedly not mine
# sparseMatrix I knda like the idea of being responsible only for my own content
# [schmarty] sparseMatrix: for what it's worth i set out to implement all my own building blocks as well. i used webmention.io and others (like indieauth.com) because i wanted to hurry up and get to posting
# [schmarty] and having learned more since then i understand the shape of them better, and feel confident i could replace them if needed.
# sparseMatrix yeah posting was probably the #1 priority for me, so I can post now, and do a fair job of the authorship task, but I rolled up on doing webmention late in the afternoon yesterday
# [schmarty] looks at the doomsday clock for indieauth.com
# sparseMatrix I was already spent for the day, so didn't take it very far
# sparseMatrix doomsday clock?
# sparseMatrix is that the time left until trump can tweet again? :p
# [schmarty] sparseMatrix: lol o no absolutely not re: tweeting
# sparseMatrix seriously though -- why a doomsday clock for indieauth.com
# [schmarty] i'm trying to remember if we've captured this concisely on the wiki
# [schmarty] ah yeah some of it is at the top of https://indieweb.org/indieauth.com
# [schmarty] ahaha
# sparseMatrix so it's funny you mention indieauth.com just now
# sparseMatrix I was about to mention installing omnibear
# sparseMatrix I was pretty pumped about it
# sparseMatrix then I plugged in jamesstallings.code4peeps.life to authenticate and it failed to work
# sparseMatrix I guess it goes back to the differences we were talking about with that fellow who wanted to make the ruby gem
# sparseMatrix yesterday I think
# sparseMatrix I know my site serves the hcard directly, and has at least one viable relMe link in the header (github)
# sparseMatrix now here's a question I've been meaning to ask: Do I need to also run my blog on jamesstallings.code4peeps.life?
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# sparseMatrix put another way, can I blog from reader.code4peeps.life and auth from jamesstallings.code4peeps.life?
# sparseMatrix [aaronpk] need to == do so to accomodate webmentions and otherr interop
# sparseMatrix cool, thanks [aaronpk]
# barnabywalters webmention is really just a way of letting one URL know that another URL linked to it
# sparseMatrix I thought it might be doing something like that already ;)
# sparseMatrix I'm really still in the nascent stages of my education on microformats
# sparseMatrix nods
# 
Loqi The Private Webmention protocol is an extension to Webmention that supports sending and verifying Webmentions for posts that require access control https://indieweb.org/private-webmention
# barnabywalters sparseMatrix: what’s your motivation for having separate hostnames for your main profile and your blog?
# sparseMatrix in a word, 'naivete'...lol
# barnabywalters indieweb approaches and technologues typically consider each hostname to be a separate identity
# sparseMatrix in the absence of knowlege, we make assumptions
# barnabywalters *technologies
# sparseMatrix yeah there is no particular reason it has to be seperate, and if it's better that they be the same, that certainly can be arranged
# sparseMatrix so give me the quick and dirty on micropub
# Loqi Micropub is an open API standard (W3C Recommendation) for creating, editing, and deleting posts on websites, like on your own domain, supported by numerous third-party clients, CMSs, and social readers https://indieweb.org/Micropub
# barnabywalters take it away, loqi
# barnabywalters what is micropub
# Loqi Micropub is an open API standard (W3C Recommendation) for creating, editing, and deleting posts on websites, like on your own domain, supported by numerous third-party clients, CMSs, and social readers https://indieweb.org/Micropub
# [schmarty] lol
# barnabywalters ha ha jinx
# [KevinMarks] mention.tech already does that - if you use it to send it looks up the webmention endpoint as well as storing the links itself
# barnabywalters aaronpk: loqi feature request: if the same “what is x” gets requested multiple times within a few seonds, make loqi say “I just told you that”
# sparseMatrix : )
# [KevinMarks] oops I was scrolled up, that was in reply to @barnabywalters "a site owner could set up a webmention repeater that pings multiple backends."
# sparseMatrix so micropub is good
# barnabywalters sparseMatrix: depends on your use case, but broadly speaking yes
# barnabywalters I’d say it’s good but not necessary for everyone
# sparseMatrix right
# sparseMatrix good for developers of micropub tech lol
# sparseMatrix and their users of course
# barnabywalters if you want to be able to post content to your website using a micropub client, then it’s good to implement
# barnabywalters and if you want to build such a client, then it’s good
# sparseMatrix yup, or use one
# sparseMatrix I think at some point, I'd want my site to support it
# barnabywalters if I was building a dynamic single-user blog-esque publishing system from scratch, I’d base everything around micropub
# sparseMatrix in other words, 'if you were me, you would... ; )
# sparseMatrix I saw a really good looking python micropub lib on git, I think that guy bear did it
# sparseMatrix he seems like a very ccapable fellow, just looking at his code
# sparseMatrix whoops, nope, it was kylewm
# sparseMatrix flask-micropub
# barnabywalters both bear and kyle have done a lot of good work
# [KevinMarks] what kyle did with silopub was very neat and potentially useful if you're building a python blog
# sparseMatrix I'll check it out, one sec
# sparseMatrix hmm Idk if that's a thing anymore
# sparseMatrix ulimately I end up at a site hosting some research papers
# [KevinMarks] it provides a micropub interface to multiple silos, so you can syndicate to it. The domain has gone, the code is still there
# sparseMatrix gotcha
# sparseMatrix I'd not be syndicating to THE silos though
# sparseMatrix I got off facebook several years ago and never looked back
# sparseMatrix google, same
# sparseMatrix I LOVED google+, was an early user, blogged heavily there... then I started getting circled by all these governement alphabet agencies people
# sparseMatrix I was also an early user of twitter, which I liked to use from my phone
# barnabywalters sparseMatrix: did you get an export of your google+ content? if so, you could bootstrap a new blog from that
# sparseMatrix for some reason they banned the client I was using, which was the only one at the time (this predated the predominance of smart phones)
# sparseMatrix it pissed me off so I quit the tweeter
# barnabywalters I briefly used diaspora before switching over to posting only on my own site, and I imported a lot of old posts
# sparseMatrix barnaby: it was a long time ago
# sparseMatrix I still have all my old failbook content, some of that may find it's way out of the archives again
# sparseMatrix I've been pretty active on reddit for some years, but I have begun to ask myself why
# barnabywalters the nice thing about reddit is that it’s very friendly to having indieweb content posted there
# sparseMatrix actuall barnabywalters I might be able to get that google+ content still
# barnabywalters and bridgy can backfeed top-level responses to your site
# barnabywalters when I activated bridgy’s reddit support, I got notified of a bunch of times random pages from my website had been posted there without me knowing about it
# sparseMatrix thing about reddit is the emphasis on anonymity
# sparseMatrix it's actually against the TOS to dox anyone, and I think it applies to onesself, though I dont think its enforced
# sparseMatrix the self bit
# sparseMatrix anyway, looks like I can get all my old hangout data which should include the google+ stuff
# barnabywalters I have an account with my own name to prevent impersonation, and an anonymous account
# barnabywalters nice
# sparseMatrix they're gonna email me a link
# sparseMatrix ok breakfast time. I'll be back : )
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[tantek] wow the #AaronParecki hashtag goes all the way back to 2012! https://twitter.com/search?q=%23AaronParecki%20&src=typed_query&f=live
# [tantek] In other news, anyone have Peloton and want to Export your data? Apparently their APIs for doing so are quite open. Some might say TOO open: https://twitter.com/zackwhittaker/status/1389898720125280259
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@zackwhittaker New: Peloton's leaky API let anyone pull members' private user account data, even with their profiles set to private. Worse, when the bug was privately reported earlier this year, Peloton ignored researchers past their 90-day deadline. https://techcrunch.com/2021/05/05/peloton-bug-account-data-leak/ (twitter.com/_/status/1389898720125280259)
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# paul3 I noticed that quill.p3k.io sends html content as a string, but micropublish.net as an array. What is the right/preferred way?
# barnabywalters paul3: is the difference between urlencoded form data and JSON data?
# barnabywalters content must be a single string when urlencoded, and an array with a string in when sent as JSON
# barnabywalters consumers need to be able to handle both formats to support the full range of micropub clients and functionality
# paul3 I meant if you have
# paul3
{ "content": [ { "html": "some html" } ] }# paul3 micropublish.net has "some html" as an array
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# sparseMatrix barnabywalters: not sure what all is in it (haven't cracked it open yet) but there's 4 GB of it, compressed :p
# sparseMatrix in two pieces
# sparseMatrix I just put it over on the big machine with 32 gb, I'm about to go have a look at it
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[barryf] Micropub spec question raised in this issue (https://github.com/barryf/micropublish/issues/70#issuecomment-832819448) — is a 201 + Location response from a server acceptable for a “delete”? I read the spec as saying you must return 200 or 204 but it is a little ambiguous here in the opening sentence: https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/#response-2
# Loqi [ulpaulpa] No, but I return 201 for all successful post requests and I don't want to add an exception just for deletes as its allowed: https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/#response-2
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# [barryf] Yes, Micropublish accepts a 201 for the undelete but not the delete. https://github.com/barryf/micropublish/blob/master/lib/micropublish/request.rb#L56
# sparseMatrix @barnabywalters seems 'hangouts' does not refer to google+ but rather what I always called google chat.
# sparseMatrix it's all presented in a .JSON file
# sparseMatrix it's amazing how much stuff is in that file that is not something I or my chat partner said in the course of the chat
# sparseMatrix I did get all my photos down since sometime in 2011
# sparseMatrix and found a book I knew I had but couldn't find, because it's on google not an actual book lol
# sparseMatrix 'spatula ink recipes', contains a lot of old recipes for indelible ink (or as close as they could get to indelible)
# sparseMatrix the one I've been trying to find is the official recipe for the British Civil Service, from back in the days of the old empire
# sparseMatrix it's a prussian blue and ammonia ink, IIRC
# sparseMatrix back to topic, this is the python lib by bear I was thinking of, probably had confused with kylewm's, they both do micropub
# sparseMatrix https://github.com/bear/python-indieweb
# sparseMatrix yeah, unfortunately...
# sparseMatrix ...tis python 2.something
# sparseMatrix not python3.something
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# sparseMatrix Hey have y'all heard of https://github.com/andymatuschak/orbit
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[chrisaldrich] I'm generally aware of Andy and Michael's work in that space and the project, but haven't delved into that particular code before.
# [chrisaldrich] What is spaced repetition?
# Loqi Spaced repetition is a functionality often provided by apps and websites using a flashcard-based UI and used for improving one's memory https://indieweb.org/spaced_repetition
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# [chrisaldrich] spaced repetition << https://github.com/andymatuschak/orbit
# Loqi ok, I added "https://github.com/andymatuschak/orbit" to the "See Also" section of /spaced_repetition https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=75594&oldid=71215
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