#dev 2021-07-20

2021-07-20 UTC
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[tantek] folks looking at alternatives to HTML (what was the thing that started with G that wasn't Gopher? Gemini?), I think Hixie's post on "replacing HTML" is quite good: http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1344621190&count=1
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aaronpk omg 9 years ago
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aaronpk also lol the semantic web made it to that list of failed attempts
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[tantek] we passed the 10 year anniversary of the first IndieWebCamp
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aaronpk i am sad we were not able to celebrate that in person
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[tantek] speaking of "years ago". though that's more #indieweb-meta 🙂
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[tantek] same, perhaps like our principles, we do it at 11
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GWG aaronpk, [tantek]: I'm sad too
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aaronpk 😂
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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petermolnar !tell capjamesg regarding your search implementation, first of all: nice work. The only thing I'd like to add is that the reason why my search frontend is PHP is because PHP is significantly more omnipresent, and thus easier to deploy, than a full-on flask app. Here: https://github.com/petermolnar/petermolnar.net/blob/master/search.php
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petermolnar the xml part is for opensearch, the json for wordpress search compatibility - I don't remember why I did this though
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capjamesg petermolnar This is the second piece of feedback I have got on the article and it's only been out for a few hours :D
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Loqi capjamesg: petermolnar left you a message 3 minutes ago: regarding your search implementation, first of all: nice work. The only thing I'd like to add is that the reason why my search frontend is PHP is because PHP is significantly more omnipresent, and thus easier to deploy, than a full-on flask app. Here: https://github.com/petermolnar/petermolnar.net/blob/master/search.php
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capjamesg More information will be available in subsequent blog posts. To be honest, I have taken it too far in some regards: robots.txt directives are now followed even though I am just indexing my site :)
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capjamesg I have worked a lot with Flask and so it wasn't too much of a problem to set up.
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capjamesg And, admittedly, I haven't done anything with PHP so I didn't even consider that option.
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capjamesg But that's interesting.
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petermolnar oldschool PHP is essentially on the fly templated HTML
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petermolnar so if a server has php - eg. apache mod_php, or nginx with php-fpm - you can essentially upload a .php and it'll just work(tm)
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capjamesg Ah, that's interesting. I shall have to do further research.
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capjamesg jinja2, the templating engine I am using (and the one commonly used with Flask), is really intuitive. The syntax resembles that of Jekyll in many ways, which is nice.
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capjamesg But if there's a way to serve content without the server component that might save on quite a bit of code.
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petermolnar jinja2 is nice; the php equivalent is twig.
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petermolnar that said, php is in itself a templating engine; or at least it used to be
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petermolnar one was able to write html, and occasionally insert <?php domagic(); ?> into any portion of the html, save it as .php, and magic happened
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petermolnar see the bottom of that search.php
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petermolnar I have to admit, I don't know if this approach still works with php8.
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[tantek] "upload a .php and it'll just work(tm)" is quite compelling
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[tantek] and also, paraphrasing what petermolnar wrote, take your .html file, rename it .php and it "just works" to start with is also compelling
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petermolnar fair point :)
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[tantek] federatedsocialweb(.)net was "lost" as of a certain date. and its possible to use archive.org links which use a specific date and then it finds the closest one (I don't know if it looks older or newer by default, can test it though)
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petermolnar try that timemap link
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[tantek] the thing about building this kind of table at a domain granularity is that it could likely be shared
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petermolnar see what it returns
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[tantek] for the record http://web.archive.org/web/timemap/link/URL
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[tantek] I got a "application/link-format" file in return ?
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petermolnar yes
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[tantek] when I tried the https version
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petermolnar open it with text editor
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[tantek] in the http version I got: "To see this content, confirm you're over 18 / To protect our younger users, we block 18+ content on mobile devices by default"
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petermolnar ooh
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petermolnar that's unexpected
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petermolnar eg http://web.archive.org/web/timemap/link/https://tantek.com returns quite a few mementos
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petermolnar related: I have a json map for cameras and lens, because if some EXIF data is present, like manually set focal length, I can guess the lens based on the timeframe I owned them, but in order to do so I need the date of purchase and the date of selling them.
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petermolnar I believe you'd want something similar: a domain map which has a cutoff date, when the domain went dead, and if the link is from before that, try replace it with archive.org based on the memento list and a close-enough date hit to the pubdate of your entry
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[tantek] ooh that's quite the "simple" API with comma delimited results
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petermolnar it's an absolutely disgusting API imo :D but also extremely useful
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[tantek] for federatedsocialweb in particular, it looks like it was migrated to https://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/federatedsocialweb/wiki/ which is still up (and w3.org can be expected to stay up at least as long as MIT is around)
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Loqi IndieWebCamp 2013
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[tantek] I'm interested in opinions on the general strategy of having a redirect table of domains to places they "ended up" whether static on archive.org or some other domain / host that is maintaining the former site
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[tantek] I'm going to start at least capturing this information as a redirects on the wiki for sites relevant to indieweb
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[tantek] e.g. https://indieweb.org/federatedsocialweb.net
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[KevinMarks] I did fiddle with the archive API in mention.tech but I didn't look by date
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[KevinMarks] they have this https://web.archive.org/cdx/search/cdx?url=https%3A//tantek.com
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petermolnar the reason I used the timemap/memento because I was looking for first mementos for my own site
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[KevinMarks] I was experimenting with this around the time of the 1st dweb summit https://svgshare.com/dweb
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] I looked at the Flutter vector format thing. Their excuses for not using SVG are kinda weak: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YWffrlc6ZqRwfIiR1qwp1AOkS9JyA_lEURI8p5PsZlg/edit#
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[tantek] oops this is the heading link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YWffrlc6ZqRwfIiR1qwp1AOkS9JyA_lEURI8p5PsZlg/edit#heading=h.xrc2oiiya87t
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[tantek] After reading that, I would conclude: then make your own version of SVG Tiny which has the exact subset you want! Call it SVG Small or something
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[tantek] That way you can strictly define it, AND get instant support across existing browsers etc.
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[tantek] I mean heck Kevin, since you're deep enough into SVG, *you* could write up a subset of SVG that apparently fits the Flutter vector format constraints, and then publish it as a "modest proposal" 🙂
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[KevinMarks] That was my thought too - call it an SVG profile.
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@CodingPotions ↩️ Te lanzo sugerencia Meter cosillas de IndieWeb como RSS, webmentions, etc, es un movimiento que me gusta mucho y tengo pendiente de implementar en mi blog. https://indieweb.org/ @ant_laguna tiene un tutorial, pero es para 11ty. https://antonio.laguna.es/posts/usando-webmentions-en-eleventy/ (twitter.com/_/status/1417453265835462657)
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[tantek] petermolnar, could you add a short sentence or two about the timemap/memento thing/URL/API to https://indieweb.org/Internet_Archive ?
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[tantek] seems worth capturing for the use-case with the proposed solution you stated
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capjamesg Anyone use OwnCloud?
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capjamesg What is owncloud?
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Loqi ownCloud is an open source software project for self-hosted personal web services including a file manager (an indie version of Dropbox), music, calendar (CalDAV), contacts (CardDAV), and more https://indieweb.org/owncloud
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capjamesg What is nextcloud?
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Loqi Nextcloud is an open source software project for self-hosted personal web services including a file manager (an indie version of Dropbox), music, calendar (CalDAV), contacts (CardDAV), and more https://indieweb.org/Nextcloud
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GWG Use it for what specifically?
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GWG I have an installation I use for storing files
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capjamesg An itch I have mentioned a few times (although not directly) is that I need a better way to store my photos.
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capjamesg I have them backed up in iCloud but I feel an additional, physical backup is a good idea.
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capjamesg (if I get locked out of my account for whatever reason, I'd lose hundreds if not thousands of photos since my last manual backup)
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capjamesg I was thinking about a Pi nextcloud server for photo syncing.
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[tantek] I feel like for "an additional backup" you want something *simple*, not something that requires updating yet another external piece of OSS
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[tantek] like back them up as files
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[tantek] if they're in an iOS device, use Image Capture to periodically download them to a folder
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[tantek] then use whatever filesystem based things you use for backing up to back up that folder
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capjamesg Yeah. I'm on Ubuntu so I can't do that :)
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[tantek] you have no Macs whatsoever?
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capjamesg If there's an easier solution to a server, I'm all ears.
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capjamesg I have a ~6-7 year old Mac that will barely turn on (disconnect the power and it immediately shuts down).
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[tantek] the hard part is getting them off your iOS device, not the "solution to a server" part
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capjamesg Yeah, exactly.
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[tantek] hah I have a couple of Mac laptops like that where they only run (for more than a few seconds) with the power plugged in
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GWG I use Nextcloud's Instant Upload to backup the photos on my phone... unfortunately... I keep forgetting to move them to photo storage. My Nextcloud instance has 21gb of photos now
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GWG That's just 2 years
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[tantek] ^ yeah that's part of the problem of using yet another "cloud"
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GWG [tantek]: The cloud is in my living room
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capjamesg The ideal solution is something that just works.
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vikanezrimaya I wish I could back up photos to my website. Have a private gallery at my media endpoint that allows to quickly attach a photo to a new post via Micropub client querying the media endpoint for recent uploads (an idea that's been floating around for a while)
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vikanezrimaya I think my new media endpoint needs to be designed specifically around that workflow.
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vikanezrimaya I should research how access control works in MinIO and S3 to see how can I protect links besides the obvious "let the media endpoint proxy everything"
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vikanezrimaya Or maybe it is the best approach?
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petermolnar Next/owncloud is a crappy photo album, but if you use the whole shebang, it's ok - eg cal/contact sync. For photo only, I'd check other solutions as well, like https://lychee.electerious.com/
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petermolnar I use nextcloud to share things worh family without needing to manually fiddle with htaccess, plus cal, contact, etc sync, but it's SLOW. Although that could be because I made it index a few hundred gigabytes of photos :)
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vikanezrimaya I also wonder if I could make a calendar from an h-feed of h-events and RSVPs - some private, some public
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vikanezrimaya Oh, maybe if I make an rsvp, do a repost of an h-event into an event h-feed!!!
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petermolnar One day I'll make an obscene static generator uses maildir, ical, carddav as source.
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vikanezrimaya Why maildir?
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vikanezrimaya What would be extracted from it?
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vikanezrimaya Plane tickets?
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vikanezrimaya Oh right, we don't fly around anymore
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aaronpk what is Flutter?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Flutter" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Flutter is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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aaronpk I use NextCloud for syncing my iOS contacts and for sharing files with people
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aaronpk but I kept running into issues trying to use it as a dropbox replacement
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aaronpk and their iOS photo upload thing kept failing too, like most of them
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aaronpk ages ago the Dropbox app was super solid at syncing my iOS photos out of the phone, but Apple changed the APIs available for that and it got less reliable
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capjamesg aaronpk what are you using now?
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[tantek] I'd say use the old Mac that requires power to get them off your iOS device and into a local file system, then copy from there to your "physical backup"
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capjamesg +1
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[tantek] such old Macs are good for such purposes, and printing to old printers which have drivers that are no longer updated for new OSs
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vikanezrimaya Ugh, printers!
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aaronpk +1 for filesystem backups. I don't have a good workflow for my iOS photos yet, but my camera photos live in date folders on a hard drive now
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aaronpk for file syncing I've been pretty happy with SyncThing for a few years now
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[tantek] ^
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petermolnar Syncthing is beautiful
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aaronpk Ive been thinking about writing a web app to index the photos on the filesystem but treating it as just an index and nicer way to browse, where the files are always the canonical version
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petermolnar If I had the patience to move from dovecot to cyrus, then I wouldn't need an extra card/cal server. Maybe one day.
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petermolnar aaronpk: see lychee, it's close to that.
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aaronpk I've looked into it a couple times, probably due for another look
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GWG Re photos, not sure about any of these https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/06/the-big-alternatives-to-google-photos-showdown/
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[grantcodes] I've started using nextcloud for upload + photoprism for managing them and seems pretty good so far
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aaronpk interesting, i hadn't heard of photoprism before
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aaronpk ugh docker tho
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aaronpk it does tick all the boxes tho
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capjamesg Wow.
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capjamesg This looks promising.
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capjamesg One thing I'd love to do is use TensorFlow to classify images on my blog.
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capjamesg I already use alt text but I'd love to do this.
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capjamesg Downside: I have never sued Tensorflow :)
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capjamesg (this idea came from the photoprism homepage)
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aaronpk in other news... https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8984.html
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sknebel fastmails jsonification of PIM standards continues?
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capjamesg In more other news... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57901108
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capjamesg "The warning was contained in a recently published page offering "top tips for a strong, reliable connection this summer"."
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sknebel https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8984.html#section-1.4.9 patch format, interesting
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aaronpk that seems potentially useful outside of this particular format
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GWG aaronpk: https://github.com/photoprism/photoprism/issues/94
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Loqi [KipourosV] #94 No docker deployment?
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aaronpk heh https://github.com/photoprism/photoprism/issues/94#issuecomment-460688584
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Loqi [KipourosV] Thanx for all the help... The more I dig into this the more deploying a docker vm seems a better idea...
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sknebel just type what the dockerfile says in a shell :P
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sknebel (not quite, I know... but people forget that you can *look at* what the docker setup is doing)
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[tantek] aaronpk wow so jCal was DOA and thus a couple of Fastmail folks wrote up jCalendar? I mean, unless there's actual commitment from Apple or Google or some other big vendor to also support it in addition to iCal, I'm not sure this will go anywhere
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sknebel I'm guessing this "fell out" of their JMAP work, their email API where my impression is they're at least partially going by "we need an API for this anyways, lets develop it in the open and see if people pick it up" (https://jmap.io/index.html)
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sknebel e.g. that jcalendar update syntax is basically what they do in JMAP
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sknebel (with some but not overwhelming uptake by other projects)
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[tantek] that sounds reasonable tbh
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[tantek] so even if no one else uses it, at least it's out there in the open
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[tantek] or rather, even if it doesn't get "massive uptake"
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[tantek] might be worth looking at to see how they solved some of the ambiguities of iCal, and then making the same decisions in h-event
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GWG [tantek]: Maybe we could work on that before the pop-up
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[tantek] GWG, maybe? I think the process issues are the key blockers
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[tantek] if you think it's important, please capture it as an h-event GitHub issue/proposal that way it'll at least be in the queue
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GWG I think everything is important... but we all compromise
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[tantek] Hmm, if everything is important, then nothing is actually important in practice
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[snarfed] tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 19 karma in this channel over the last year (51 in all channels)
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GWG [tantek]: Prioritization is hard
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[tantek] also true!
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[snarfed] and important 😆
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GWG My dreams well outreach my time
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