#dev 2021-11-24
2021-11-24 UTC
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@fluffy ↩️ This is why I am a big fan of IndieAuth and rel=me links (twitter.com/_/status/1463358531046764548)
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[KevinMarks] Some good thoughts here on longevity https://scribe.rip/design-and-long-term-thinking-3da1f2cd5623
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capjamesg[d] search << A different way to think about search: https://you.com/
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Loqi ok, I added "A different way to think about search: https://you.com/" to the "See Also" section of /search https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=77971&oldid=77970
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# [KevinMarks] This is actually a pretty honest assessment of the web3 tech process https://www.psl.com/feed-posts/web3-engineer-take
# [KevinMarks] Eg“Blockchains usher in a new era of decentralization.
# [KevinMarks] This is lofty, but not very specific. The Internet is fundamentally decentralized; we use protocols like SMTP, TCP, and HTTP all day every day without stopping to think about them. Nothing prevents the development of further non-crypto decentralization. In fact, major groups like the W3C, the WHATWG, and the Indie Web are thinking quite hard about this. Decentralized non-crypto social networks of considerable scale exist today;
# [KevinMarks] see, for instance, Mastodon. Also, while it’s true that blockchains are interesting distributed systems, it’s a bit odd to say that they are harbingers of decentralization when the effect of their distributed system is to create a single global database that all other software must refer to! Blockchains do not appear special in this regard, although the statement is squishy enough that it remains open to further interpretatio
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[tantek]1 saw that, and was good to see the Indie Web reference
# [tantek]1 checks analytics again
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# [tantek]1 nothing unusual, Webmention is the top non-main page, and could still use a nice architectural / flow diagram summary for the top of the page (featured image)
# [tantek]1 on another topic, since it's kinda dev related (what do you call this thing in your UI and/or code), I rediscovered https://indieweb.org/tag_aggregation and wondering if we've had any convergence in terminology/phrasing for the term for the page on your site that shows all your posts with a specific tag? (in the past 5y since that page was last edited)
# [tantek]1 I would like to distinguish the "page on your own site of your tagged posts" vs. services that aggregated tagged posts across sites
# [tantek]1 and document specific examples of each
# [tantek]1 better: provide a place for folks to document their own personal site examples!
# [tantek]1 (see what kind of different UI people provide etc.)
# [tantek]1 you used to call it a tag feed 🙂
# [tantek]1 "tag page" was also KartikPrabhu's suggestion
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "tag feed" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "tag feed is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# [tantek]1 maybe start with the preferred term?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "tag page" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "tag page is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# [tantek]1 the list of candidates is here: https://indieweb.org/tag_aggregation#Overloaded_naming
# [tantek]1 yeah I like "tag page" as well, it allows for many different models (including feed/stream or other presentations)
# [tantek]1 also different from a *tags page* which would presumably show at least all the tags you've used linked to individual tag pages
# [tantek]1 what is a tag cloud
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "tag cloud" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "tag cloud is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# [tantek]1 tag cloud being one possible presentation of a tags page
# [tantek]1 I bet [KevinMarks] has opinions on this since it involves tagging *and* naming 🙂
# [tantek]1 nice
# [tantek]1 that uses type / bubble size to presumably convey relative frequency
# [tantek]1 simple(r) presentations of tags pages are possible too, e.g. https://educatedguesswork.org/tags/
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# micahrl[m] I've been working on my indieauth and micropub server Interpersonal. The most basic form of Micrupub support is now working :) as micropub.rocks is able to create a plain text post. I'm very excited about this because it took me longer than I thought to get this far.
# [snarfed]1 micahr++
# micahrl[m] However, I haven't had success with a couple of other Micropub clients. Both quill.p3k.io and micropublish.net say that my server doesn't return a valid response for the token exchange. I'm confused by this because my server isn't logging any errors, and because micropub.rocks is able to post to it.
# [snarfed]1 er sorry, micahrl++
# micahrl[m] Trying to debug this now, but curious if anyone else who has implemented a micropub server has seen this behavior. And/or if the authors of either of those two clients happen to hang out here, a suggestion: if there is a failure when the app tries to get a bearer token, could you post the URL you tried to call?
# micahrl[m] That is, when an error is displayed, show the URL that returned the error too
# [snarfed]1 micahrl: you should be able to see that in your web server logs, right?
# [snarfed]1 they won't have the request body, but you could add some logging for that yourself, and then retry
# micahrl[m] Yeah, that's what I'm working on adding now
# [tantek]1 micahrl[m]++ good questions! and that's a great name Interpersonal++
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# micahrl[m] Thanks :) right now I'm targetting Github-hosted Hugo blogs, and I want to make the types of static sites it can talk to pluggable, so that it's easy for someone to add a connector for e.g. Jekyll on Gitlab or however their own blog works, without writing very much code.
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[aciccarello] micahrl I don't know what your targeting for Interpersonal but you might be interested in looking at https://github.com/getindiekit/indiekit as well, even just for inspiration. It also targets static site generators.
# capjamesg[d] Re: wikis. Is anyone building their own solution?
# capjamesg[d] Some of my markdown files are getting quite long now.
# capjamesg[d] I am probably going to move them to a web site so I can break them up / potentially expand them more freely.
# micahrl[m] IndieKit looks really good, wow, I hadn't seen it before
# [snarfed]1 capjamesg: for wiki/evergreen style pages, many of us just use posts in our existing CMS, with minimal changes, eg no (or less) date(s) in slug or display
# [snarfed]1 example on my site: https://snarfed.org/coffee , the only difference is no date in the slug
# [tantek]1 snarfed, do you have an allowlist of top level "word" paths like that or a generic handler for any "word"?
# [snarfed]1 I could also consider hiding the published date and only show the last updated date
# [snarfed]1 [tantek] just URL design. /[date]-[slug] for posts, /[slug] for pages
# [tantek]1 do you provide any kind of versioning/history viewing functionality on such pages?
# capjamesg[d] I was thinking of something a bit broader. Like a place to share links and notes and project documentation.
# capjamesg[d] I want to distinguish this from my main site because there will be more wiki-style linking and ideas that are not pertinent to a lot of visitors.
# [snarfed]1 no externally visible history, no. it exists, and I expect there are wordpress plugins to show it
# [snarfed]1 capjamesg: try a trivial MVP based on your existing posts, link with normal links etc, and see what you think!
# [snarfed]1 (present or author)
# [tantek]1 there's definitely a different "look" to typical "model" examples, e.g. compare Medium articles vs Wikipedia pages
# [tantek]1 or mainstream news articles vs. say an MDN documentation page
# [tantek]1 question is do any of those style/presentation differences matter to you, if so why, and if not, which would you prefer for your articles/documentation and why?
# capjamesg[d] I like the IndieWeb wiki style for documenting ideas.
# capjamesg[d] That style feels more natural.
# capjamesg[d] Regarding presentation, I think it will.
# capjamesg[d] I envision a sidebar for perusing documents.
# capjamesg[d] Like the Raspberry Pi Foundation documentation.
# [tantek]1 I agree, there's something to the wiki style of presentation / linking that's much more conducive / welcoming to documenting brief snippets of ideas etc.
# [tantek]1 whereas article styling (e.g. Medium) is almost too polished, makes it look like you need more substantial content before you publish
# capjamesg[d] I reserve my blog for longer content.
# capjamesg[d] I tried having a notes section but that did not work out. I didn’t write notes and did not find them useful in the context of my site.
# capjamesg[d] Whereas a wiki feels more conducive in context toward half-baked ideas.
# [tantek]1 I used to do that too. It's been quite liberating to get into a pattern of posting a wide spectrum of lengths / structures of content
# capjamesg[d] Maybe I should wikify this haha.
# [tantek]1 I don't have a notes "section", that never made sense to me.
# capjamesg[d] I like having my blog posts as their own thing, recognizing that they are longer and contextually need to be distinguished from other things.
# [tantek]1 my notes do tend to be shorter than my articles, however there's definitely overlap (I have some long notes and some short articles)
# capjamesg[d] A lot of my permalinks for non posts are mapped to blog posts [snarfed].
# [tantek]1 and not having to title things was also liberating
# capjamesg[d] For example, /blogroll/ is a blog post. That has made organization much easier for those sorts of posts that change over time.
# capjamesg[d] Interesting re: no titles. I like to have some kind of title somewhere. That’s just me though.
# capjamesg[d] Most short posts / notes don’t have titles.
# [tantek]1 what is wiki-project
# capjamesg[d] I like the idea of static storage.
# [tantek]1 capjamesg[d] perhaps see if you can capture your brainstorming from above about what you're looking for in a new subsection of https://indieweb.org/wiki-projects#Brainstorming
# capjamesg[d] I want to avoid databases in a solution that I build for actual file storage. Metadata is fine.
# [tantek]1 yes that seems the most sensible
# capjamesg[d] I’ll add something tomorrow 🙂
# capjamesg[d] But versioning might be a bit tedious.
# capjamesg[d] Well, not really.
# capjamesg[d] I could have a table for tracking revisions by time / location on file system. Then just serve the contents from markdown.
# capjamesg[d] I usually use Git but that is not practical for this.
# [tantek]1 what do you think of using an h-feed for versioning? and only show the "latest" version as an h-entry?
# [tantek]1 (in the single-file)
# capjamesg[d] That is also possible, eliminating the database side of things.
# capjamesg[d] Good idea!
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