#dev 2022-01-25

2022-01-25 UTC
jacky, balupton[d], sarahd[d], [chrisaldrich] and KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
jacky okay I think https://uphold.com/en-us might be what I'd want to use re: WebMonetization
#
jacky you can do it between fiat currencies
#
jacky I wonder if you could disable transferring to crypto
jessealama and angelo joined the channel
#
jacky TIL about https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/clip-path
#
[tantek] yes, super handy
jessealama and tetov-irc joined the channel
#
capjamesg[d] Going back to web monetization, is it worth adding the monetization tag to a personal site?
#
capjamesg[d] I see there are quite a few examples on the coil.com website. To be honest, I'm more curious about the technology than anything else.
jacky joined the channel
#
[tantek] capjamesg[d], given the lack of examples from the community, I'd say it's only worth it if you feel it’s worth the investment of your time to explore it from a learning perspective.
mlncn, mlncn_, jacky, [tw2113_Slack_], alex11, neceve and P1000[d] joined the channel
#
jacky what would the markup for a 'upvote' or a 'downvote' look like?
doubleloop[m] joined the channel
#
jacky like if I wanted to upvote something on reddit from my site or on lemmy?
#
jacky what is upvote
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "upvote" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "upvote is ____", a sentence describing the term)
#
jacky hmm
#
capjamesg[d] I don’t know if we have any examples…
#
capjamesg[d] The first thing that came to mind was a dedicated reacji.
#
capjamesg[d] ⬆️⬇️ could both be used.
#
capjamesg[d] (I hope those emojis came though haha).
#
capjamesg[d] What is voting?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "voting" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "voting is ____", a sentence describing the term)
#
jacky they did!
#
jacky and yeah I was thinking reacji too
#
capjamesg[d] Excellent!
#
jacky I kind of want something a bit more semantically defined mainly to prevent more parsing based on content
#
capjamesg[d] Using reacji means you don’t need to make up a markup item and ask people to support it.
#
jacky but I'd have to be cautious of what forms it could take, no?
#
jacky like I might expect that emoji to represent an upvote
#
capjamesg[d] Yeah. Especially with an emoji you’d need to make sure the input was exactly as you wanted it to be.
#
capjamesg[d] Or you could go down the route of a property like p-vote.
#
jacky but if someone else uses an 🔝 then I'd have to add that in
#
capjamesg[d] What is polling?
#
Loqi polling is also known as periodically fetching, and part of the problem with the “just use RSS!” attitude by some old-school bloggers who are ignoring about 15 years of social media UX and protocols work, specifically the “thundering herd” problem as well as the overpolling problem of popular sites; use WebSub instead per https://tantek.com/2018/024/t4/websub-recommendation https://indieweb.org/polling
#
jacky heh, p-vote is def a path, but I vaguely remember it being tricky from the earlier attempts
#
jacky I might punt this for now
#
capjamesg[d] I spoke about polling a few weeks ago in the context of answering questions via a poll.
#
capjamesg[d] I thought about markup but didn’t build anything because my use case is not great enough.
#
capjamesg[d] Generally though if you can avoid making up a property that is a good thing 🙂
mlncn_ and mlncn joined the channel
#
jacky that's true
#
jacky also random
#
jacky lol
#
jacky do people tend to strip EXIF info of photos when they post to their site?
#
jacky I'm considering that since my phone _definitely_ embeds GPS info in my photos that I could probably strip that and use it as the location (privately) for posts
#
[tantek] ^ another possible use for an image-proxy? stripping of EXIF
#
jacky perhaps!
#
[aciccarello] jacky, I have been using squoosh.app to resize and strip the EXIF info from my photos. I'd like to automate that at some point.
#
[tantek] image-proxy << Brainstorming: strip EXIF (in particular lat long) for privacy reasons
#
Loqi ok, I added "Brainstorming: strip EXIF (in particular lat long) for privacy reasons" to the "See Also" section of /image_proxy https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=79325&oldid=79247
#
jacky this _might_ be something that'd be best to live first on a micropub client / social reader first (like to remove that info and maybe ask if one wants to attach it as post info)
#
jacky a micropub media endpoint could also strip that info but store it adjacent to the media itself for later querying (all of the items that are in a particular physical area or were created using a particular device)
#
jacky lots of brainstorming!
#
jacky lol
#
capjamesg[d] What is the best way to test images for EXIF data in bulk?
#
Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "best way to test images for EXIF data in bulk" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "best way to test images for EXIF data in bulk is ____", a sentence describing the term)
#
capjamesg[d] I think you can remove it when resizing images on macOS.
#
capjamesg[d] That is what I have been doing lately.
#
capjamesg[d] There is a “preserve metadata” box that I assume strips EXIF data but I haven’t really checked.
#
[snarfed] imagemagick can read EXIF tags. try eg `identify -verbose [file]`
#
[snarfed] (it's both command line tools and a library)
#
GWG- I save exif data automatically in my posts, but I don't strip it because WordPress creates a presentation version that strips it. You can figure out the original filename though
#
[aciccarello] My website's git repo is publicly available so processing as part of a micropub media endpoint is probably my best option.
#
[tantek] what is photo uploading
#
Loqi Photo upload is the act of creating a post whose primary content is a photo, typically captured by a camera on the same device that is creating the post https://indieweb.org/photo_uploading
#
[tantek] ^ worth adding some brainstorming thoughts there about why you should or should not strip EXIF before photo uploading
#
sknebel What is EXIF?
#
Loqi Exif is the Exchangeable Image File Format, the most common format to embed image metadata into images https://indieweb.org/EXIF
#
sknebel https://indieweb.org/image_metadata#Why_does_an_IndieWeb_site_care.3F
#
sknebel Is the closest we have mentioning that right now
#
[aciccarello] I wonder if EXIF might be better considering photos can be uploaded to other kinds of posts like articles
#
[aciccarello] Yeah, that seems the most related
#
[tantek] got notified by /DreamHost that my monthly hosting fees are going up to $11/mo
#
aaronpk inflation whee
#
[tantek] pre-DreamHost I was paying $10/mo for a long time for a lot less service so this doesn't seem unreasonable to me
#
[tantek] then again their forced upgrade of PHP did break H2VX so there is that 😛
#
[tw2113_Slack_] i think i’m still at 13.99
#
[tw2113_Slack_] i use DH for my registrar and some of my extremely lower traffic sites
#
[tantek] did we decide to document this or not? seems like there's some indieweb-ish dev-related thing here about NOT making your personal site software depend on a bunch of libraries that are auto-updated that could bring down your site: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/dev-corrupts-npm-libs-colors-and-faker-breaking-thousands-of-apps/
#
[tantek] what is NPM
#
Loqi npm is the Node package manager (although the npm project maintains it is not an acronym), though it can be used to manage javascript package for any type of javascript project (not limited to node.js or server-side js) https://indieweb.org/npm
#
[tantek] (the larger problem is beyond NPM, packages & dependencies in general)
#
capjamesg[d] I think Drew DeVault has also written about that topic.
#
capjamesg[d] https://drewdevault.com/2021/11/16/Cash-for-leftpad.html
#
capjamesg[d] “What are you going to do if one of your dependencies vanishes? What if someone studies the minified code on your website, picks out an obscure dependency they find there, then bribes the maintainers?”
#
capjamesg[d] The article is satire but does hit at a key point about ceding control when to lots of external dependencies.
jacky joined the channel
#
jacky I think more info should be on /like if /upvote is going to redirect to it
#
jacky https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=upvote&action=history noting from this
#
jacky like maybe to /like#why-not-upvote
#
jacky would do this but he can't sign in at the moment
#
[tantek] makes sense Jacky, I would support that (a more specific redirect is an improvement)
#
[fluffy] So, playlists, now that two separate folks have asked to move the conversation here 🙂
#
[fluffy] I tried a bunch of different things in the past, including xspf, but player support was minimal (the only player I know of which even supported it was a Flash embed), and m3u (which has serious UX problems on most modern systems).
#
[fluffy] I’m trying to remember an embedded player library I used to use which used its own mf2-style microformats (h-track) but I’m coming up blank trying to find any uses of it in the wayback machine.
#
[fluffy] I *think* it was Yahoo! Media Player but I’m not certain.
#
[fluffy] Or maybe it was whatever a bunch of folks switched to after Yahoo! discontinued it.
#
[fluffy] There was also the del.icio.us playtagger for a while, but I don’t think that used microformats.
KartikPrabhu joined the channel
#
jacky dang
#
jacky I'm curious about it mainly to see if I can publish playlists of the songs I listened to the most in a month, quarter and a year
#
[fluffy] okay I found a page capture using it (it was just “htrack” with no hyphen) but I’m not finding the actual <script> tag for it, as wayback machine seems to have stripped that out for some reason
#
[fluffy] oh, maybe I have a backup of this old-ass page somewhere
#
[fluffy] nope, damn
#
jacky dang
#
jacky maybe we can be the one to make new prior art lol
#
jacky side-note: has anyone tried reaching out to newsblur to see if they'd add mf2 / make use of it?
gRegor joined the channel
#
[KevinMarks] So there are several generations of playlist format, because interop is hard. The point of xspf was to provide additional information about the song so it wasn't just urls like m3u, so you could potentially resolve it differently.
#
jacky ooh interest
#
[KevinMarks] Play the songs from your own library, or whichever streaming service you subscribed to
IntriguedWow[d] joined the channel
#
[KevinMarks] The last FM people were into that as they scrobbled from multiple services, but as ever the services hate interop and want you to just pay them
#
[KevinMarks] See https://www.playdar.org/ for some of the history
#
jacky also might be interesting for social readers that want to pipe out recommendations https://radimrehurek.com/gensim/
#
jacky errr https://github.com/jamur2/rsscluster
#
Loqi [jamur2] rsscluster: Gensim document similarity demonstration using RSS feeds as document sources
#
[KevinMarks] You could make an m3u full of magnet URIs, if you want the true retro 2002 idea http://gojomo.blogspot.com/2002/06/kevin-marks-canonical-universal.html?m=0
#
jacky heh that could run into piracy problems
#
jacky unless the files were like .url files to the actual songs on multiple music platforms
#
[KevinMarks] That's part of the challenge, yes. The sha1 approach doesn't work if the files are separately encoded, so you get into MusicBrainz ids which are based on audio processing
#
[KevinMarks] Also, streaming silos don't give you useful urls a lot of the time
#
jacky yeah at least not for search
#
jacky manually doing it via the URL is usually the path