#dev 2022-01-29

2022-01-29 UTC
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Matt[m] Thanks aaronpk , for the life of me I couldn't find it on your site. I found the JSON feed by looking for you on feedly. I see now that you've got rel=alternate links. Is that a standard? (inside or outside of the IndieWeb community?)
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aaronpk I thought so
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aaronpk Feedly didn't find it?
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Matt[m] I don't know how Feedly found it, but they had you under your json feed. I wanted to pull it into my own homebuilt (part of Haven) feedreader which doesn't support json feeds (yet?)
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Matt[m] The RSS Advisory Board declares rel=alternate as a standard for autodiscovery, so you're probably right: https://www.rssboard.org/rss-autodiscovery
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aaronpk Did you search my domain name or just search what Feedly has already indexed?
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aaronpk I'm curious if this is something Feedly does, like prioritizing json feed over RSS, or if there's anything I need to change on my side
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Matt[m] I searched your domain name. It might pick feed sources in order, grabbing the first rel=alternate with a format it recognizes. You've got them in order: jf2, json, atom
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Matt[m] Or maybe yours was already indexed from someone manually adding the json feed, feedly lists you as having 34 followers
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aaronpk Interesting. Well if you find any docs that suggest I should change the markup let me know!
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Matt[m] I would advocate for a visible link on your home page for feeds. Even using the old-fashioned rss icon
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capjamesg[d] sknebel I have ironed out a few small errors on the PR I mentioned yesterday in case you're still up for taking a look. https://github.com/capjamesg/indieweb-utils/pull/28
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Loqi [capjamesg] #28 Add new IndieAuth server functions
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capjamesg[d] Although I still have to investigate why the doc autofunction is not working. I think that has something to do with the docs using an older version of the library.
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capjamesg[d] I believe that will be resolved when the library is upgraded in the docs.
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@yuceltoluyag @TwitterDev @TwitterAPI #twitter I just wanted to show the webmentions service on my blog. https://webmention.io/ (twitter.com/_/status/1487364414470647811)
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superkuh Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
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Matt[m] aaronpk: From the RSS Advisory Board's page on RSS auto discovery:... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/d0a6e9b52c84315853c8f0a730bdfe85535d4261)
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Matt[m] * aaronpk: From the RSS Advisory Board's page on RSS auto discovery:... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/cd1b522b03073530bdaccea040b86ee6790ad8da)
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Matt[m] * aaronpk: From the RSS Advisory Board's [page on RSS auto discovery](https://www.rssboard.org/rss-autodiscovery):... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/048be7489a687cb65589542f2289023fa0d82e18)
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aaronpk fyi editing a post in matrix sends repeated messages through the rest of the gateways
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jacky sheesh
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capjamesg[d] [James_Van_Dyne] I'm excited to say I have added full test coverage for the IndieAuth functions. I wrote all the tests in one function to reuse certain values but we could break them out for clarity, if necessary.
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[schmarty] Looking through Block Protocol docs this morning. I definitely disagree with a lot of the specifics, but I am definitely intrigued by the idea of something like "Block protocol but microformats".
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sknebel [schmarty]: did you find a good TL;DR somewhere? the initial announcement was ... very vague, and I didntreally have time to dig deeper
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aaronpk i also definitely do not understand it yet
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[schmarty] sknebel: not yet. I just went ahead and did read (some of it)
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[schmarty] I think it can be simplified as WP's Gutenberg blocks but everywhere.
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sknebel I'm not sure that simplifies anything ;)
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[schmarty] The spec is a lot about moving JSON around and making collections of properties to blocks that render those properties as html, in ways that can be passed back out
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[schmarty] Ugh. *mapping collections
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[schmarty] And *parsed back
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[schmarty] shakes fist at autocorrupt
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[KevinMarks] so, microformats and micropub then?
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[schmarty] The actual plumbing I really dislike
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[schmarty] (Everything is React components in TypeScript)
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[schmarty] There is a ton of overlap with microformats. I haven't gone deep enough to see how it overlaps with micropub.
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[schmarty] They even have a Block registry that sounds a lot like the microformats wiki
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[schmarty] (Except it includes a growth-hacky call to "claim your namespace by registering!!")
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aaronpk as long as they don't call it a block...chain
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[schmarty] (And it's not at all clear what process they expect for interoperability. Kinda seems like "just publish whatever")
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[KevinMarks] so are the blocks doing anything more than rendering? Is there a web components angle?
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[schmarty] I haven't got that far yet KevinMarks 😅
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jacky from what I was reading (b/c why sleep, lol); it's both a presentation and storage angle
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jacky like imagine if you had given someone access to a table in some database, if they have a sense for the semantic consumption case of it, they can choose to present it however
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jacky like a list of dates could be rendered as a calendar elsewhere
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[schmarty] My understanding so far is that they are React components that render some JSON input. by using TypeScript an editor can parse your components and create editor UIs semi-automatically
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jacky or a list of books be turned into a grouped list of books by one of their fields
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jacky [schmarty]: that's the sad part - it's so locked into React
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jacky they're probably banking on that and if 'enough interest arises', other people will port it over
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[schmarty] jacky: yeah the React thing got the biggest sigh from me. They said support for other frameworks is expected in time, so, probably just as you said they want a community to come do it
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jacky that said, this is a great PoC of how an editor that's smart enough can be used to produce 'heterogenous' content
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jacky I do wonder how this would look from the IndieWeb lens
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jacky obvs HTML would be the storage format (direct to browser for rendering perks)
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jacky the blocks part is kinda tricky imo
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[schmarty] I think a first approximation would be web components that help construct and edit common microformats constructions
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jacky hm okay
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[schmarty] And then, like, a library of templates that splats out that mf2 to html
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jacky when I see that, I'm thinking like something like <h-entry> wrapping generic HTML but like it provides an 'editor' for the resolved mf properties
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aaronpk hah microformats names are valid custom elements
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jacky :P
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jacky oh wait, I understand what you're saying now [schmarty]
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jacky so like in the case of tags, maybe something that can show a editable list of tags (sourcing unknown) but like when maybe associated to something else, it produces the needed HTML?
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jacky (or even the DOM being able to do something like `.asMF2Json()` or `.toMF2HTML()`)
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[schmarty] Yeah like I think the work here is in making choices about what mf2 vocabulary should look like on a page, but also how an editor would let you manipulate those chunks in composition
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[schmarty] jacky: ooh that kind of DOM API sounds nice
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jacky I think I'm biasing the interface around something like https://quilljs.com/
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[schmarty] Definitely feels like a missing link for an editor that works with somewhat arbitrary chunks of html+mf2 fragments
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[KevinMarks] what is inkstone?
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Loqi InkStone (formerly MobilePub) is a web app for posting various items to your website using micropub https://indieweb.org/inkstone
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[schmarty] (Or is it mf2+html?)
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jacky (I think it's mf2+html, lol)
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[schmarty] (Hahaha yeah that makes sense. "mf2 data, encoded as HTML")
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Loqi hehe
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jacky okay this is a good start tbh
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jacky like prototypeable
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[schmarty] Inkstone is a good reference KevinMarks++
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Loqi KevinMarks has 20 karma in this channel over the last year (51 in all channels)
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[KevinMarks] inkstone is a bit like that, in that you can add various things. So far we haven't done a lot with nested things inside posts, though there has been some discussion of it in trip reports etc.
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[KevinMarks] editor mode in quill is a bit like that already, as you can insert images and movies
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[schmarty] A lot of things we consider to be "part of" a post (h-entry) really can be "just" composition, though.
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jacky yup!
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jacky that's the exciting part imo
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[schmarty] Like a "read post" is an h-entry that has a read-of
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[KevinMarks] https://quill.p3k.io/editor has the + button to insert images, which could insert another thing potentially
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[schmarty] indiebookclub.biz is kind of like a (pretty opinionated) UI for making a read-of to stick inside an h-entry
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[KevinMarks] I mentioned the buzzfeed editor before too, which is tuned for creating lists of things with credit for the things
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jacky has some free time today
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[schmarty] Quill editor is interesting. I feel like the boundary of what is inside "e-content" vs not may potentially get messy
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jacky like I can see things being constructed like `h-entry` but then also `dt-published` and even `in-reply-to` (for rich reply contexts!)
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jacky good point [schmarty]
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jacky especially with things like tagging
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[KevinMarks] there's something here that isn't full opendoc, but a way to compose in the medium/buzzfeed way, but with a few other types than image?
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jacky I guess in some cases like that, the owning object of a e-content could parse out any mf2+html and show them as virtual top-level properties?
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jacky hmm maybe not making `dt-published` but like `mf-dt` so it can be used for any case
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[schmarty] I think the idea of a compositing editor to make properties that are commonly handled "invisibly" more editable. Like syndication links, or reply contexts.
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[schmarty] *like the idea
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jacky :D
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jacky now to get the code working lol
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jacky wants to put notes on this on the wiki but he's still fixing some audit log stuff in his indieauth setup
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[schmarty] Hahaha. Reading deeper into the block protocol and if you saw "blocks are React components" and thought "that sounds like allowing randos to run arbitrary JavaScript": you're right!
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[schmarty] > You should take suitable precautions to ensure that block code is unable to compromise your systems or take unexpected action on behalf of your users.
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GWG Anyone who has a microsub server, how do you store feed type usually?
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sknebel GWG: what do you mean by that?
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sknebel [schmarty]: ... sooo .... "IFRAME ALL THE THINGS"?
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[schmarty] sknebel: [\o|]
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GWG sknebel: Whether it is RSS, jsonfeed, mf2, etc. I'm trying to revisit that right now
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sknebel ah ok. not something my proxy needs to know, but I wonder if you need to store that in general?
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sknebel instead of just discovering what it is once youve fetched it, even if it changed since last time?
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[KevinMarks] wait, are they reinventing google gadgets now?
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[KevinMarks] how long until they discover https://developers.google.com/caja
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GWG sknebel: That was sort of my contemplation
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aaronpk wow i totally missed that whole caja thing
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sknebel GWG: so I'd say you dont need to store it. especially since you possibly use a parser that hides some of it from you anyways
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capjamesg[d] GWG I think I store MIME type in a DB field.
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capjamesg[d] Then when i process a feed I do so according to that type.
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capjamesg[d] Although that does mean if someone changes their RSS feed to JSON or something like that then my could wouldn’t be able to poll the feed.
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capjamesg[d] To make my code more robust I should probably just check at run time rather than only when I first subscribe to a feed.
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jacky that's a good idea
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jacky tbh I'd even just do it on failure to parse to save compute cycles lol
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jacky but that's only needed if you need to save cycles
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[James_Van_Dyne] capjamesg: far out. I’ll give the PR a look now while my coffee’s brewing.
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