#dev 2022-02-01
2022-02-01 UTC
jacky and Seirdy joined the channel
# 
Loqi offline first is a method of developing a website that once a user has visited it once on their device, it will always provide at least some content (posts) and or features (like creating posts) when they revisit even when offline without internet access, using technologies like Service Workers and Local Storage https://indieweb.org/offline_first
# 
[tantek] offline first << Example of a game (Wordle) that is built to work offline until 2026: https://twitter.com/mcclure111/status/1488275144069898240
# 
@mcclure111 Hm. Interesting. Just saved a copy of Wordle as "Web Page (Complete)" to my downloads folder, unplugged my computer from the Internet and my local Wordle worked fine. Only problem was the play history didn't carry over (because different localstorage domain) https://twitter.com/ilianathewitch/status/1488272612790730754 (twitter.com/_/status/1488275144069898240)
# Loqi ok, I added "Example of a game (Wordle) that is built to work offline until 2026: https://twitter.com/mcclure111/status/1488275144069898240" to the "See Also" section of /offline_first https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=79433&oldid=78548
Seirdy, zachburau[d], angelo, gRegor, jacky, KartikPrabhu1, bg2 and [aciccarello] joined the channel
# 
capjamesg[d] Can a h-feed, in the current state of the spec, include a feed of anything other than h-entry objects?
jamietanna joined the channel
# 
jamietanna I have `h-feed`s including `h-measure` or `h-event`s, so either my `h-feed` isn't compliant, or it's OK? :D
# capjamesg[d] We had a discussion about this a while ago but I cannot remember the outcome.
# capjamesg[d] I discussed it in the context of h-events in a feed.
# capjamesg[d] I thought that was the case.
# capjamesg[d] I think I might skip implied h-feed parsing in indieweb-utils then as I shall have to accommodate for all h-* types.
# capjamesg[d] (That is not to say I will not come back to it though).
Loqi and oxo111999 joined the channel
# capjamesg[d] [tantek] Re: coffee/cafes. How about a MediaWiki? Categories could be used to "tag" cafes. There would be a page that listed certain tags that should be used (i.e. Open Early, Offers Speciality Coffee, Accepts Reusable Cups) and can be tagged on any page.
# capjamesg[d] This way, the editing interface / linking / everything is already built to start.
doubleloop[m], reed, npd[m], diegov, rommudoh[m], nekr0z, Abhas[m], samwilson, zack[m], mambang[m], [jackjamieson], marksuth[d], LaBcasse[m], EvanBoehs[m], jamietanna[m], binyamin[m], unrelentingtech, kandr3s[m], ermahgerddavid[m, kinduff, juanchipro[m], micahrl[m], Matt[m]12 and jacky joined the channel
# 
kinduff Hello, I'm consuming the webmention.io webhook calls and I noticed that when a web mention gets deleted, the notification arrives just with a source, target and a deleted flag. Is there a way to determine the ID of the web mention that was deleted? Using the source can be tricky.
# kinduff Sorry if this is not the right place to ask
rommudoh[m], nekr0z, reed, Abhas[m], samwilson, LaBcasse[m], zack[m], doubleloop[m], diegov, EvanBoehs[m], npd[m], mambang[m], micahrl[m], binyamin[m], jamietanna[m], unrelentingtech, kandr3s[m], ermahgerddavid[m, Matt[m] and juanchipro[m] joined the channel
# kinduff aaronpk: how open would you be to add return the ID here just for the info? https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention.io/blob/daea65e326ef55475c4c4b0a87c7615162a09d8f/controllers/controller.rb#L126, I can do a PR
# kinduff makes ense
# kinduff * makes sense
jacky, Guest6, KartikPrabhu and oxo111999 joined the channel
# capjamesg[d] [tantek] https://breakfastand.coffee 🙂
# 
@TerribleMia Ever since @css/@robinrendle wrote about "Weird Browsers" I've been trying to imagine a browser that helps non-technical folks:
- create a basic personal site, not locked to a platform?
- wire up indieweb stuff like webmentions/rss?
- follow friends?
etc
https://css-tricks.com/newsletter/273-weird-browsers/ (twitter.com/_/status/1488582497382408197)
# capjamesg[d] HTML is my API 🙂
# oxo111999 does it have to be a full browser or could it just be a plugin?
# oxo111999 making a browser and getting ppl to adopt it is a lot
# Loqi archive in the context of the indieweb refers to date-grouped (often monthly) sets of posts (AKA personal historical archives, a common form of temporal navigation), but can sometimes mean archival copy, a copy of a web page made (often by someone other than the author) at a particular point in time https://indieweb.org/archive
# Loqi archive in the context of the indieweb refers to date-grouped (often monthly) sets of posts (AKA personal historical archives, a common form of temporal navigation), but can sometimes mean archival copy, a copy of a web page made (often by someone other than the author) at a particular point in time https://indieweb.org/archiving
# sknebel archival copy << https://github.com/iipc/warc2html tool to turn a [[WARC]] recording into standalone static files
# Loqi ok, I added "https://github.com/iipc/warc2html tool to turn a [[WARC]] recording into standalone static files" to the "See Also" section of /archival_copy https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=79439&oldid=78044
# capjamesg[d] That’s a good link sknebel. Good to know that sort of tool exists.
# capjamesg[d] [tantek] good suggestions! I’m done for the day but will work on them soon.
# capjamesg[d] I also want to stub out a wiki page to experiment a bit with format / what I want to share.
# capjamesg[d] In terms of syndicating from one’s website I wonder how that could work.
# capjamesg[d] Maybe the wiki can accept web mentions and create pages from new h-entries with a syndication link?
# capjamesg[d] And for actual place pages, those would be aggregates of personal stories w/ high level info too.
# capjamesg[d] The place pages can be made using the Mediawiki editor and all of the reviews / recommendations from websites can be programmatic.
# capjamesg[d] (Note: anyone can assist with this! Just let me know and I’ll get you set up.)
# Loqi A venue is a named location or address/geo that is typically used for checkins https://indieweb.org/venue
# capjamesg[d] How would one edit those pages?
# capjamesg[d] 100%
# capjamesg[d] I’ll also need to draft up a page or two on what a good entry would look like / what sorts of things reviews vs. places should include.
# capjamesg[d] I shall also have to find a logo to represent this project.
# capjamesg[d] The MediaWiki default isn't exactly ideal 🙂
# capjamesg[d] Absolutely 🙂
# capjamesg[d] Registrations are disabled btw.
# capjamesg[d] [tantek] I have a script that creates a new page on the wiki. now to add some mf2 magic to parse a h-entry and turn it into a wiki page.
# capjamesg[d] (These are testing pages. I'll delete them when ready.)
# capjamesg[d] webmention.io supports webhooks right?
jacky and gRegor joined the channel
# capjamesg[d] [tantek] the editing feature could work by someone copying the page source onto their website with the changes they want to make.
# capjamesg[d] The webmention hook would then tell my script that the page is an edit request, not a create request, and replace the page contents.
# capjamesg[d] aaronpk how does web sign in work on the IndieWeb wiki?
# capjamesg[d] [tantek] and maybe the script could recognize h-reviews too and tag pages as appropriate.
# Loqi An edit (AKA diff, change) is a special type of reply that indicates a set of suggested changes to the post it is replying to. A collection of (presumably related) suggested edits in open source is often called a patch or pull request https://indieweb.org/edit
# [tantek] Have a read through https://indieweb.org/edit#Brainstorming in particular and feel free to add a new section with your suggestion too! "someone copying the page source onto their website with the changes they want to make"
# capjamesg[d] I also wonder if it is worth grouping reviews under separate pages.
# sknebel capjamesg[d]: using https://github.com/vouch/vouch-proxy and the extension linked from https://indieweb.org/mediawiki-customization
# capjamesg[d] /cairngorm_coffee/reviews/capjamesg or /cairngorm_coffee with a reviews section?
# capjamesg[d] Thanks sknebel.
# capjamesg[d] That explains how the SSO part works that’s mentioned in the IndieWeb extension.
# capjamesg[d] Thank you!
kubie joined the channel
# [tantek] sknebel, aaronpk, can you add that to https://indieweb.org/mediawiki-customization ? Currently there is no mention of "IndieAuth" on that page so no way for someone to figure out how to implement IndieAuth sign-in on their MediaWiki in the same way we do
# 
jacky looks like IndieWeb PWAs can get more mainline functionality with push notifications https://www.macrumors.com/2022/02/01/ios-15-4-apple-support-web-based-notifications/
# capjamesg[d] I saw that!
# capjamesg[d] That is so exciting!
# capjamesg[d] I think my reader is the only thing other than texts that I would allow notifications for.
# capjamesg[d] It’s still very early though it looks.
# capjamesg[d] 1- It's a disabled-by-default experiment at this time
# capjamesg[d] “You read that right. For years, the most requested feature may finally arrive in iOS and iPadOS: Web Push and Web Notifications. But there are some catches:
# capjamesg[d] 2- The APIs are there, but they are not working”
# capjamesg[d] Indeed.
# [tantek] capjamesg[d] interesting test page! Starting with the URL, instead of using a blog post name/title (which can easily collide), use the path instead, e.g. the same way IndieNews does it, e.g. note the URL design here: https://news.indieweb.org/en/boffosocko.com/2022/01/28/indiewebcamp-personal-libraries-pop-up-session/
# capjamesg[d] This is a big deal in the PWA world.
# capjamesg[d] PWA++
# capjamesg[d] One karma? Wow.
# Loqi progressive enhancement is the web development practice of building web pages, sites, apps so they are at least readable, and preferably allow for most if not all interactions, from any kind of browser, and optionally take advantage of additional capabilities (like various CSS & JS features) when available https://indieweb.org/progressive_enhancement
# capjamesg[d] That’s a good idea [tantek] re: URLs.
# capjamesg[d] I had never thought about that tantek.
# capjamesg[d] You’ve got to have progressive enhancement.
# capjamesg[d] I really hope there is a day where you can make a web app feel entirely native to the iPhone.
# capjamesg[d] (Of course not expecting every SDK to be on the web)
# [tantek] capjamesg[d], wondering where to capture that aspect of URL design (besides on /URL_design ) so that folks building aggregator-like things like IndieNews would be able to re-use it as a design building block
# capjamesg[d] rel=“hot-takes”
# capjamesg[d] href=“hot-takes.txt”
kubie joined the channel
# capjamesg[d] There is also a matter of licensing. Is it reasonable to say that any post submitted will be licensed under the Creative Commons? Or should there be disclaimer about “unless another license is stated above.”
# 
aaronpk hmm just "submit" right now https://news.indieweb.org/how-to-submit-a-post
# 
[KevinMarks] That was the original point, yes.
# [KevinMarks] Right, but it was description rather than content originally
# [KevinMarks] Apparently not https://www.rssboard.org/rss-0-9-0
oxo111999, sp1ff and tetov-irc joined the channel