#dev 2022-04-29

2022-04-29 UTC
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[fluffy] [snarfed] yeah what I mean is sometimes a thing causes my webmention push thing to revisit old pages and sends out mentions of old items. When that happens, Bridgy Fed sends out notifications of those old items as well, and they clog the Mastodon timeline. Although that could just be one of many situations of Mastodon’s federation model being stupid.
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[fluffy] I don't know if the items wouldn't appear for folks who had been following me the last time they went out and if they're just like “new to the receiving instance”
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[fluffy] My `p-uid` definitely isn’t changing, in any case
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[fluffy] Does bridgy fed always send out an update to ActivityPub subscribers every time it receives a webmention?
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[fluffy] okay yeah the behavior I’m seeing is consistent with the old post being “new to Mastodon”
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[fluffy] well, that’s annoying
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[fluffy] I didn’t realize bridgy fed was relying on the receiving mastodon instance to dedupe post notifications. Which is more a serious issue with mastodon and an impedance mismatch between it and webmention.
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aaronpk oh yeah i've noticed that happens with my activitypub posts too
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[fluffy] Would it be possible for bridgy fed to keep track of items it’s already seen in the past and do the deduping there?
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aaronpk that's not really sustainable because it depends on the state of the receiving server
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[fluffy] Receiving server meaning Mastodon, or meaning bridgy fed?
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aaronpk mastodon/whatev
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[fluffy] I mean the problem is that mastodon gets notified of an old post and then floats it up to the timeline as if it’s brand-new
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aaronpk as in, i have this same problem but i don't use bridgy fed and i send activitypub posts myself
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[fluffy] right
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[fluffy] I mean this is a problem with mastodon itself and the way it handles push notifications in general
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aaronpk so it's a problem (or design choice) of mastodon
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[fluffy] the more I run into these mastodon corner cases the more I hate it
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aaronpk there must already be an issue filed about this
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[fluffy] but I mean if bridgy fed were to be like “oh hey I’ve already sent out push notifications for this item, I won’t send it out to activitypub receivers again” that seems like it’d “fix” the problem
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[fluffy] insofar as it would pave over an issue with mastodon
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[fluffy] It also means that mastodon servers will never get backfilled on older items but Mastodon doesn’t seem to care about that in the first place
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[fluffy] I mean it’d sure be nice if mastodon were to sort the timeline by actual publish time instead of receive time, but then that opens up the can of worms of “what if this notification is delayed? people won’t see it” and I mean, valid
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[fluffy] but it really speaks to how broken mastodon’s federation model is in the first place IMO
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[fluffy] well, and how broken the Twitter-like experience is
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[fluffy] I think I’m wrapped back around to not caring
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aaronpk 😂
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[fluffy] Maybe I’ll be nice and open a bug report against mastodon to suggest they handle old notifications better
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[fluffy] there https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/18178
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Loqi [fluffy-critter] #18178 Filter out older, out-of-sequence items from main timeline
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@gnu_texmacs ↩️ Would be nice to have this integrated in TeXmacs, in order to produce websites with webmentions. E.g. for the blog: https://texmacs.github.io/notes/docs/main.html (twitter.com/_/status/1519943228144996355)
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[KevinMarks] so this stuff is just badly recreating rel -links with fake URLs and no actual agreement on certs, right? https://www.w3.org/TR/vc-data-model/
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voxpelli I wonder if one can use this “iFrame in Twitter” embed solution for something cool indiewebby? Like showing webmentions? https://twitter.com/tomayac/status/1519998447860031490?s=21&t=8y7zaSdpsMJpSIaiQ_vY1Q
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@tomayac #TIL that Twitter Player Cards allow you to embed arbitrary iframes into tweets: ```html <meta name="twitter:card" content="player" /> <meta name="twitter:player" content="https://example.​com/" /> ``` (via @rowan_m's https://twitter.com/rowan_m/status/1519995183068323840 and via @dixitbavu's https://twitter.com/dixitbavu/status/1375536872068288513 (twitter.com/_/status/1519998447860031490)
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[fluffy] The iframe embed is how things like soundcloud and bandcamp players work, and while it’s clever to use it for things that aren’t media players it shouldn’t be so surprising.
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[tantek] I feel like [KevinMarks] has some clever hacks that can make use of this
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sknebel I expected that to be only for specially-approved sites or urls
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[tantek] Happy 4/29 day! HTTP 429 - "Too Many Requests" https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6585
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@AuthorBuzzUK This blog should be the Author Platforms directory host This blog should be the Author Platforms directory host This guide covers pretty much all of the author platform topics, webmentions are enabled on all the pages of the guide. Therefore,... https://tmblr.co/Z2K-Ydbw6kCwWW00 (twitter.com/_/status/1520089737834471426)
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[tantek] aaronpk, more technical problem, my RSVP isn't showing up on events.indieweb. At first I thought it might be that my site didn't send a webmention, but then I used mention-tech to send one manually and it said the webmention succeeded
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[tantek] https://tantek.com/2022/119/t1
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] co-organizing @IndieWebCamp Düsseldorf this weekend with @marcthiele @calum_ryan @jkphl! 🗓 2022-04-30…05-01 📍 @cgi_global 🎟 https://btco.nf/iwcdus22 ℹ️ https://indieweb.org/2022/DUS Also excited for the @btconf main event! https://tw...
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[tantek] (haven't touched my RSVP markup in ages, years?) and it used to work on events.indieweb
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[tantek] let's troubleshoot this openly and I will document it in a /RSVP#Troubleshooting section
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@kevinmarks ↩️ With indieweb we extend this further by defining a protocol to know when someone has linked to you, called webmention. Then you can look at the page that linked to you and tell if it is a like or reply or rsvp. (twitter.com/_/status/1520114984059117575)
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[snarfed] go [KevinMarks]++ go!
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@kevinmarks ↩️ the rel-me standard for correlating web pages https://indieweb.org/rel-me ways of marking up different post kinds https://indieweb.org/posts webmention How to tell a page when it has been linked https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ micropub: how to post https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/ (twitter.com/_/status/1520116503315726336)
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@gvelez17 ↩️ Indyweb extends the original microformats with other protocols to combine these together, such as #webmention - combines source and target - can convey like, reply, rsvp, or any kind of response (twitter.com/_/status/1520117881878417408)
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aaronpk [tantek]: i just put your URL and the event URL into the webmention form and i see it now
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aaronpk so that implies to me the problem was the sender didn't find the endpoint?
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@kevinmarks ↩️ tumblr can be connected to the indieweb using http://brid.gy and @photomatt could upgrade its markup to catch up with mastodon's indieweb interop. (twitter.com/_/status/1520118413846265856)
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[tantek] aaronpk both my site and mentiontecj found the end point
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aaronpk let me see if i can find any logs
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aaronpk i see one that worked at 17:32 UTC
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aaronpk so, almost 2 hours ago
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[tantek] hmm that would have been around when I used mention-tech. so maybe that did work and it just didn't show up on the event instantly (I tried refreshing)
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[tantek] was it being held in moderation for approval? which would kinda suck for the UX tbh
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[KevinMarks] https://mention.tech/listmentions?target=https%3A%2F%2Fevents.indieweb.org/2022 says it got a 200
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[tantek] weird that I couldn't see the RSVP on the event afterwards
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aaronpk It should appear basically instantly, there's no queue for it
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[tantek] sounds like I still have some webmention sending debugging to do
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