#dev 2022-05-18

2022-05-18 UTC
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[tantek] alternative to fragments: hashtags
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jacky [chrisaldrich]: good idea!
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[chrisaldrich] hashtags are fine, but they're always(? are there any that aren't?) silo specific, a URL with a fragment gets me directly to the content (and surreptitiously out of the silo). Hashtags within silos can often be noisy, spammy, and gamed as well. Now if there were, for example, a browser (search-like) extension that would allow me to right click on a hashtag and choose which platform it would resolve on, then *that* would be
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[chrisaldrich] something!
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[chrisaldrich] I've also wished for this sort of functionality on [[wikilinks]] so that if I were on the IndieWeb wiki, I might potentially choose to follow that link to another site (like Wikipedia or even my own wiki) with a similarly defined resource.
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[chrisaldrich] This might be something similar to Wikiwand's browser extension that will redirect one from the Wikipedia search result directly to Wikiwand's alternately skinned version of the same term: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/wikiwand-wikipedia-modernized/, but obviously provide a range of different site targets.
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[chrisaldrich] Poking around at the indieweb friendliness of Dev.to a bit. Is it just me or is there some quirky reason that https://dev.to/chrisaldrich/handwriting-my-website-with-a-digital-amanuensis-kje won't send a webmention to the original post on my site? I see the URL on the page (twice even)...
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@nbirckel L'intégration de webmentions dans un site statique 11ty deployé sur netlify. Il va être cool ce date. (twitter.com/_/status/1526827219926102016)
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[jamesg483] [KevinMarks] Would you recommend doing a string search in webmentions for hashtags?
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[KevinMarks] Makes sense though is expect most indieweb tools (including bridgy) to turn them into `category`
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[jamesg483] So u-category = 1?
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[jamesg483] *p-category
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[KevinMarks] It is a bit odd for numeric answers - you might want to accept #none, #one, #two, #three, #more etc.
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[jamesg483] We can’t vote on this on my website because we need to decide the logic #indieweb-meta haha.
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[jamesg483] (not #indieweb-meta in reference to the channel, rather “hashtag meta” 🙂 )
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sknebel [jamesg483]: why "was not the best idea"?
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[jamesg483] It’s not very intuitive to be asked to send your Webmention to different URLs.
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[jamesg483] Some people haven’t done that.
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[jamesg483] I’m fine manually going through the results for this poll but I’d like a design that doesn’t have that issue.
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Zegnat There is of course http://microformats.org/wiki/vote-links too, but that only works for binary choices
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sknebel [jamesg483]: I guess you can try a few more polls and see if people are being more reliable there.
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[tantek] capjamesg re: "not very intuitive to be asked to send your Webmention to different URLs", that's not the way to ask for it, you ask for people to link to different URLs depending on their vote, and their publishing system should automatically send the Webmentions accordingly
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[tantek] if you have to explicitly ask people to "send your Webmention", then you're doing something wrong
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@bauripalash Hello world testing webmention on my website: Hope this works https://palashbauri.in/11122021/ (twitter.com/_/status/1526960903878483968)
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@bauripalash Finally, after tinkering, hacking, patching all afternoon. My blog now has webmentions. Got guidance from @anaulin@social.coop's post at https://anaulin.org/blog/adding-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/1526974511530315776)
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[snarfed]1 [tantek] capjamesg's point probably may not have been wm sending mechanics as much as the bad UX of asking people to understand and navigate multiple posts/permalinks in order to respond to the poll
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[jamesg483] That was my point.
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[snarfed]1 also raises in my mind the q of, how do we decide when to use explicit mf2 vs content heuristics for semantics? eg likes use u-like-of, but reacji just use the "is content a single emoji" test
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[snarfed]1 we're debating similar options here. eg u-vote-for/against is explicit mf2, hashtags and fragments are content heuristics, multiple URLs is...something else entirely I guess
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[jamesg483] I like the idea of a different microformat for this.
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[tantek] snarfed, part of it is whether the set of "things" is limited and discrete, or semi-open-ended.
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[tantek] e.g. we have tags, we don't have p-tag-indieweb p-tag-microformats p-tag-politics etc.
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[tantek] since votes/polls are open ended (Twitter & IG examples clearly demonstrate this), it makes no sense for distinct microformats properties for votes/polls choices
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[tantek] and since the choices in practice are open ended, it's not clear that even a minimal subset like for/against is worth doing (because that's not how people actually use polls e.g. on IG and Twitter)
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[jamesg483] [tantek] How would you propose a site aggregating answers and calculating the result?
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[jamesg483] What if I want to vote “1-3 cups, but sometimes I don’t have any.”
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[jamesg483] So my vote is 1-3 cups but I gave a description.
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[tantek] capjamesg, I'd say go analyze the UX how existing platforms do it ("aggregating answers and calculating the result"), take screenshots, document it on /poll (once that's been separated from /question 🙂 )
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[jamesg483] But I don’t understand how to do it technically.
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[jamesg483] How can I get someone to send me a Webmention and know what answer it goes to?
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[snarfed]1 oh yeah I don't think anyone was proposing explicit mf2 for every possible poll answer. a more realistic idea would be something like p-rsvp, eg <span class="p-poll-response">2-3 cups</span>
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[aciccarello] The UX of twitter is answer poll and add a response.
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[aciccarello] Probably not optimal but simple enough
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[snarfed]1 right. the catch is that silos can own the responding UX end to end, whereas indieweb can't as easily. so part of what [tantek] is getting might be, what's the indieweb UX for responding to a poll?
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[tantek] p-rsvp is a different though because we *did* come up with a limited discrete set by analyzing existing platform UXes
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[snarfed]1 ok!
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[tantek] why does the poll response have to be different from the content of the reply? when you respond to a poll on Twitter or IG, you don't get to add additional commentary
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[snarfed]1 one question here may be, if you're on a poll page, how does that site/page help you author a micropub post aimed at your own site that maybe auto-fills your response?
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[tantek] ^ that's a more interesting question
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[snarfed]1 true! could be just the content
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[jamesg483] That is a very good question.
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[tantek] or even better, how could an indieweb "poll" post provide vote buttons for each of the choices with the labels of your choice (again, the way Twitter and IG do it)
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[snarfed]1 capjamesg's post is a good example of how responders like to fill in their own answers though, add commentary
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[snarfed]1 ^ right, exactly my authoring point
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[tantek] ^ this is why I'm asking y'all to first document screenshots of how platforms do this now
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[tantek] instead of chatting about what's possible
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[snarfed]1 yup good point
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[tantek] because "chatting about what's possible" almost always goes way beyond the scope of solving the actual problem you're trying to solve, and then you get stuck with more complexity than you needed in the first place
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> Can you send Webmentions to URLs with a 418 status code?
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[Scott_Jack] I'm adding some screenshots to the Twitter poll wiki page
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[Scott_Jack] While technically Twitter and IG polls are like an embedded element or sticker, both allow for custom replies - Twitter as a tweet, Instagram as a DM.
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[snarfed]1 capjamesg afaik the spec doesn't say anything about the HTTP response code that the target page returns, or even whether it's serving at all
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[snarfed]1 sorry, I take that back, target page does need to serve for wm endpoint discovery, so the 418 page would still need to advertise the wm endpoint in either HTML or header
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[snarfed]1 (but theoretically you could send any target to a wm endpoint, and it could accept the wm even if the target page isn't serving at that point in time)
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[jamesg483] What is dark mode?
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Loqi dark mode is a feature of websites and apps that change the color scheme to be easier to read at night or in low light settings https://indieweb.org/dark_mode
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[jamesg483] dark mode << whitehouse.gov has a dark mode as of 2021: https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/20/22240864/new-white-house-website-dark-mode-accessibility
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Loqi ok, I added "whitehouse.gov has a dark mode as of 2021: https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/20/22240864/new-white-house-website-dark-mode-accessibility" to the "See Also" section of /dark_mode https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=81527&oldid=77426
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