#dev 2022-08-08

2022-08-08 UTC
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[snarfed] angelo omz13 sounds reasonable. indie map has >1100 sites with h-cards at least somewhere, https://indiemap.org/docs.html#mf2_by_sites , but maybe fewer if you only looked at home page
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[snarfed] and if you can formulate representative h-card as SQL, you can query indie map directly: https://indiemap.org/docs.html#data-mining
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omz13 [snarfed] FWIW, when I did my crawl, I discovered that quite a few (+/400) from indie-map were no longer viable (invalid DNS, parked domains, etc)
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@TheDavidDias ↩️ Webmentions are now in production! (twitter.com/_/status/1556644267141079041)
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@TheDavidDias ↩️ @killianvlt @Uzoway_ thanks for being part of the experiment, as I'm adding Webmentions to my blog, I can see it's… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1556608295590322177 (twitter.com/_/status/1556608295590322177)
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> [campegg] I have added Micropub to Flask before but not Django.
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> I'm happy to help how I can though.
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[campegg] [jamesg483] Thanks! I’m having a bit of a re-think about Micropub at the moment. It probably falls more into the nice-to-have bucket, so am going to tackle some of the million other things on my site to-do list first. But I did have a bit of a poke around https://github.com/capjamesg/micropub to see how you did it 😉
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[campegg] capjamesg++
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Loqi capjamesg has 34 karma in this channel over the last year (91 in all channels)
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Loqi [capjamesg] micropub: A Micropub client and server implemented in Python Flask.
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@kilianvalkhof ↩️ I think a good point can be made for webmentions being more higher value and less problematic compared to traditional "comments". (twitter.com/_/status/1556669055624437763)
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@swyx ↩️ haha you know im a fan. but webmentions also have a spam issue. and not supported by 99% of blogging platforms (twitter.com/_/status/1556669368834088966)
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[chrisaldrich] I converted/promoted a WordPress tag into a category which changes the URL/path of some posts as well as potentially the feeds for that category. I've done a 301 redirect for both, but is that the best technical option (particularly for the feed) or should I also do something else?
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[chrisaldrich] I feel like it's not a typical pattern for people to redirect feeds in general, but more probably ought to to retain subscribers instead of them needing to resubscribe or fix things on their end? What else might publishers do to make this easier for their readers?
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[chrisaldrich] I know a few anecdotal examples of writers who change URLs every few years and start rebuilding their readership for RSS from scratch and this seems like something folks don't think about at all or even think through. Anyone have examples of this pattern and the best way(s) to handle it?
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[chrisaldrich] I know that WordPress.com will charge you an annual fee to redirect readers to a new site. (I recall it being on the order of $12-15/year about five years ago, so it's at least a service they offer.)
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[tantek] I think it's worth expanding on the notion of "syndication policy" that was discussed in the recent pop-up
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[tantek] (copied from #indieweb-meta) There's also I think the counterpart, which for lacking a better name, I suggest "aggregation policy", which is where you can document how you bring in content from other sites to display e.g. in reply-context on your /reply posts or link-previews, or /response posts in general
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[tantek] (copied from #indieweb-meta) e.g. if someone sees their icon, or their fully quoted tweet on your site, describe your intention to respect/honor their wishes, and how they can ask for removal from such a reply-context etc., or how they can ask to opt out of ever having their otherwise public (e.g. public tweets / twitter icon) information show up on your site
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[tantek] it's not as ideal as an "opt out" system as we brainstormed a bit in the pop-up, but it's something we can do immediately as a step in the right direction
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[tantek] what do people think of posting such an explicit "aggregation policy"? especially folks who display content (text, images) from other sites in their reply-contexts of their /response posts?
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[campegg] I like the concept of an “aggregation policy” — you’re right it’s not as good as a blanket opt-out, but definitely better than nothing.
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[campegg] How does something like a retweet fit here? It’s not really a reply… is it more of a (reverse?) syndication? Would we be able to wrap that up under whatever aggregation policy we land on?
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GWG It's my preferences for being aggregated, not my policy for aggregating I wanted to write.
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[tantek] yes a /repost would count as a use of aggregation policy because it is literally someone else's content you are putting on your own site in its entirety
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[tantek] GWG, your preferences for being aggregated is the "syndication policy" discussed in the pop-up
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[tantek] both are useful and specify different things
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GWG Okay, so that's what I need to rework that paragraph I wrote into, I guess.
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[tantek] I think the only real world example we found was The Guardian's right? would have to check the notes
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[tantek] though I believe have previously documented this elsewhere, like Twitter has a policy for use of content outside of twitter
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[tantek] found it
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[tantek] GWG, you need one of these: https://indieweb.org/display-guidelines
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[tantek] I think display guidelines is better than syndication policy IMO
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[tantek] "display" speaks directly to the user visible effect, whereas "syndication" is a plumbing-centric term
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[tantek] "guidelines" makes more sense because you are providing a *guideline* requesting that others follow, instead of a *policy* that you commit to upholding
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[tantek] what is syndication policy
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "syndication policy" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "syndication policy is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] syndication policy is /display-guidelines
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Loqi ok
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[tantek] GWG, you want /display-guidelines
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[tantek] and the aforementioned idea for "aggregation policy" is already captured on the wiki as:
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[tantek] what is remote content policy
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Loqi remote content policy is a form of disclosure by a site about how it may treat content received (federated) from other sites, like how it may by default treat messages from other sites with URLs, from new remote accounts, with images or video, and/or from known abusive sites https://indieweb.org/remote_content_policy
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[tantek] What do people think about the existing content on those pages? Any questions / concerns to add?
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[campegg] 🤔 “aggregation policy” seems like a clearer (or at least, more understandable) description of what we’re talking about than “remote content policy”
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[campegg] Also wondering if there’s a convention around wrapping some of this stuff up into a single page so we don’t end up with policy-itis… having a bunch of separate pages for all of this seems a little over the top for a personal site
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[tantek] campegg, yes that's also a good point
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[tantek] remote content policy << suggested alternative (clearer & shorter) name: "aggregation policy"
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Loqi ok, I added "suggested alternative (clearer & shorter) name: "aggregation policy"" to the "See Also" section of /remote_content_policy https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=82722&oldid=82719
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[tantek] not sure about a single page for all the policy things. I feel like separate more focused pages would get more actual reading comprehension
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GWG Okay... that works for me
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[campegg] You might be right there — having them separate would likely make it easier for someone to locate the specific info they’re after. But having a bunch of different pages for policy-type info just doesn’t sit right with me in the context of a personal site; seems kind of… corporate-y, I guess
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[schmarty] If it gets confusing in that way it might makes sense to make a wiki category to unify them
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[schmarty] Might be a problem for later when the pages are more filled out though
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[tantek] campegg, I looked up the origin of "remote content policy" and it's a now defunct page. Added an explicit suggested alternative names section to see if this is something we can quickly agree on is better for the IndieWeb and move forward accordingly: https://indieweb.org/remote_content_policy#Alternative_names (please add your preference/opinions)
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[tantek] re: separate pages vs one unified page. based on the existing lengths of some of the topic-specific policies, I feel just for discoverability / readability / IA it's worth keeping them separate *and* providing easy navigation amongst them (especially perhaps a sequential navigation if you want to just "click through" and read them all one by one)
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[campegg] That makes sense… I personally don’t love the idea of having a bunch of different policy pages, but I do agree with your underlying premise
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gRegor separate wiki pages, or separate pages on the personal site?
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gRegor I would think the policies would be on one page on a personal site, unless they're super long
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[campegg] gRegor separate pages on a personal site. Totally fine with multiple wiki pages
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[campegg] And likewise
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gRegor heh, I like the short and sweet bridgy terms
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[campegg] At least, that’s would be my preference, but [tantek] makes a good case for having them separate
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[tantek]2 gRegor, it's grown enough on our wiki, and the examples are dissimilar/divergent enough to be worth documenting on separate wiki pages
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[tantek]2 separately (so to speak) I also think it's a good idea to capture these kinds of policies/guidelines in tightly topic-focused formats for better readability / clarity
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[tantek]2 it's also reasonable to "throw them all on one page" with headings / fragment links for each in a section, and then let them evolve and if/when necessary, break out individual sections into their own pages, leaving a summary behind
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[tantek]2 that way we can provide reasonable paths for "keeping all policies on one page" *and* one page per facet / aspect of policy/guidelines
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GWG People didn't even notice that I had a privacy page
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[tantek]2 GWG, I'm getting "they don't even know" meme vibes from that 😂
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GWG I wrote it because I thought it was the right thing to do.
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[tantek]2 :thumbsup::skin-tone-2:
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