#dev 2022-08-25

2022-08-25 UTC
jacky, gRegorLove_, Seirdy, alex11, nertzy, geoffo, strugee, [chrisaldrich], jonnybarnes, gxt_, tetov-irc, tbbrown and Guest8475 joined the channel
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Guest8475 Is there a standardized method for sharing curated, categorized bookmark lists?
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Guest8475 Sitemaps are very useful for intra-site indexing, but I can't find an analogous standard for sharing extra-site link recommendations.
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capjamesg [campegg] Try the https:// version.
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capjamesg I need to fix that redirect chain.
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[KevinMarks] The classic mozilla format of a page of links is one
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[campegg] capjamesg that works!
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[tantek] It is odd that something for that never got standardized. There was the Netscape bookmarks.html format but that wasn't really “designed” as much as hacked together or incrementally accreted from some HTML
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[tantek] Probably depends a lot on what are your consuming use-cases
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[campegg] In reading through the post on Jim Neilsen’s blog, the most compelling one (to me, at least) was the Google example, because something like this only really makes sense at massive scale. If I’m doing this for the “I wonder where [domain] links to me?” thing, doing discovery across basically the entire internet isn’t really feasible; there needs ot be some kind of aggregate source to pull from.
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[campegg] And if it’s a site that supports webmentions, I’d already know where they’re linking to me from anyway.
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[manton] [tantek] If I remember, the bookmarks.html format was adopted informally by some other tools… I think Instapaper (and maybe Pinboard or Pocket?) also support it. I was looking at this again fairly recently when I added bookmark importing to Micro.blog.
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[KevinMarks] Time to migrate off heroku? https://twitter.com/simonw/status/1562823038684393473?s=20&t=DfM8yubfGY_i8-d82UgXww
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@simonw "Starting October 26, 2022, we will begin deleting inactive accounts and associated storage for accounts that have been inactive for over a year. Starting November 28, 2022, we plan to stop offering free product plans and plan to start shutting down free dynos and data services." https://twitter.com/heroku/status/1562817050565054469 (twitter.com/_/status/1562823038684393473)
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capjamesg [KevinMarks] https://blog.heroku.com/next-chapter
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capjamesg "Focus on mission critical: discontinue free product plans and delete inactive accounts."
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[jacky] I think we're okay then for the microformats parser sites
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[KevinMarks] How do they define inactive? I have stuff I deployed years ago that is still running (I think I may have been grandfathered in a slightly bigger free quota from when I worked at Salesforce)
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[KevinMarks] • *Open source programs*: If you are a maintainer on an open-source project, and would like to request Heroku support for your project, contact the Salesforce Open Source Program office at ospo-heroku-credits@salesforce.com.
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[tantek] [manton] I thought maybe there'd be a page about this but there wasn't so I created a redirect at least: enwp.org/bookmarks.html
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[schmarty] yikes yikes yikes, heroku!
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[schmarty] i guess we probably pay for the microformats.io sites.
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[schmarty] i recently moved my one heroku-hosted project to fly.io. it was not the most straightforward thing but it's pretty much equivalent.
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[KevinMarks] I moved my (static) site from heroku to netlify when heroku broke github auto deploy
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[aciccarello] I'm still trying to figure out where to host my node micropub server
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[KevinMarks] node on heroku was a good deal as it used a lot less dynos than ruby did
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Guest8475 [tantek] [manton] TBH the simplest solution I could think of was creating an RSS feed at a consistant path, say "/bookmarks.xml". The RSS <category> element appears really powerful.
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[tantek] my simplest solution is a return delimited plain txt file of URLs
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[schmarty] Guest8475 if you like XML you may want to check out OPML :}
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[tantek] also IMO "simplest" and "really powerful" don't really mix 🙂
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Guest8475 [tantek] Touche.
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Guest8475 [schmarty] Thanks. I have seen OPML. I didn't really think of it for this usecase. I'll have to look into it. :)
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[KevinMarks] there's also XOXO which has a quick json roundtrip, but is a bit retro these days https://microformats.org/wiki/xoxo
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sknebel wow, heroku giving 3 months until "we delete your data" is ... something
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@mikevdev I've migrated my site to a comments system using #webmentions. Really exciting to be able to show this off. Responses to this tweet will show up as comments! #webdev #dev #indieweb #svelte #sveltekit #web https://mikevdv.dev/blog/2022-08-25-switching-to-webmention-comments (twitter.com/_/status/1562829179603021824)
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GWG [tantek]: We could have used you last night when angelo was proposing h-project
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[tantek] GWG, I tried checking in #indieweb-chat to see if anyone was still around and no one responded
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[KevinMarks] One answer for small Heroku projects https://fly.io/launch/heroku
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[tantek] GWG did you capture consuming use-cases?
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GWG [tantek]: I didn't see that's till morning
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GWG I left after midnight my time
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GWG But I was asking angelo for consuming cases....
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GWG angelo himself is the consumer of angelo publishing it
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[tantek] It was 23:09 your time, so presumably you were still on the call
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[tantek] then better to start with h-angelo-project 🙂
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[tantek] the way that I think aaronpk has -ppk- properties
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[schmarty] -p3k- i think?
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[KevinMarks] Any suggestions for Christina? https://twitter.com/film_girl/status/1562848443294679040?t=7tBixVGt79mGot8AOcpcPg&s=19
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@film_girl Alright, time for a self-hosted Heroku alternative blog post I guess. Dokku is obvious but there are other options too. I have a bunch in my GitHub stars. I’ll make a collection there and also try to have a blog post next week for people who want to self-host or use an RPi4 (twitter.com/_/status/1562848443294679040)
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[schmarty] excited to see what options end up in her post! i ended up moving to fly.io similar to what you linked above.
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[aciccarello] Fly.io does look like a good option. I just made a note of that for my own project
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[tantek] what is Heroku?
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Loqi Heroku is a platform as a service (PaaS) that supports Ruby, Java, Node.js, Scala, Clojure, Python, PHP and others https://indieweb.org/Heroku
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[schmarty] it's been much cheaper than heroku as i was paying for DB on heroku (it was over "10,000 rows" 🙄) and a non-free dyno.
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[tantek] every time I see dyno like that I hear dinosaur. rawr
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gRegor what is fly.io
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "fly.io" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "fly.io is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[schmarty] 🗨
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angelo the consuming case is listing projects on indieweb.rocks for browse and search; i thought we had moved on from h-x- or h-angelo- prefixes?
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gRegor Not moved on necessarily, but there are some arguments against them. Vendor prefixes will always parse with mf2, regardless
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[tantek] angelo, curious where the impression of having "moved on" came from
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aaronpk vendor prefixes yes, x no
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aaronpk the problem with x prefixes is by the time you're ready to adopt it and move it to a standard, there's too much existing code to update
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aaronpk See: X-Forwarded-For, etc
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aaronpk There's even an RFC for this
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aaronpk https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6648
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[Jamie_Tanna] Fly.io has been great for some new projects I've been doing
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[tantek] the counter example to that is browsers (Firefox at least) have successfully unshipped support for -moz- prefixes on a bunch of standardized stuff. sometimes years later, but it has been possible
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[tantek] I think a lot of the "fear of -x- or X-" is based in old data / experiences, before we got much more efficient at iterating standards and making/using test suites
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aaronpk I think browsers are kind of the exception here because there are really only 3 that need to coordinate and they all have mechanisms to ship updates to users nearly instantly
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[tantek] they're still beholden to supporting web compatibility
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[tantek] if enough websites use something, even incorrectly, there’s ecosystem pressure on the browsers to keep supporting it
Seirdy, jacky, [snarfed]1, [campegg]1, [aciccarello]1, [jacky]1, [schmarty]1, Jamietanna1, IWSlackGateway6, gxt_, [manton]1, [tantek]3, IWDiscordGateway and Feoh joined the channel
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angelo https://ragt.ag/code/indieweb.rocks
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angelo https://ragt.ag/code/indieweb.rocks/commits/51d08c7be88f33381c66c3f5a506e1552bde28b6
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Loqi Move to ragt.ag
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angelo the former is an h-project and the latter is an h-entry with a couple of vendor prefixes
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angelo it is a bit daunting trying to just come up with property names ad hoc
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angelo i suppose now i'll try to consume from indieweb.rocks to find out what i actually need
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angelo but i should probably implement h-event on my site to wade into non h-entry territory
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[aciccarello]1 angelo, is that a coopers hawk on that grill?
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angelo red tailed hawk and there were my two raven buddies drinking from the dishes just a couple feet away
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angelo ravens were in charge
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[aciccarello]1 Nice!
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@IndiaAgainFilms Check Out This Article! https://mikevdv.dev/blog/2022-08-25-switching-to-webmention-comments #article #mikevdvdotdev (twitter.com/_/status/1562891608860659715)
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[tantek]3 curious if anyone here has read or followed any of the guidance here: https://wpc.guide/
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angelo if i use https://events.indieweb.org/import to import an h-event from my site will i be able to "refresh" it as i make additions/corrections on my end (like resending a webmention of an RSVP)?
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capjamesg [tantek] Thanks for sharing!
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capjamesg I recall you had a W3C-related link to share with me too?
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[tantek]3 maybe this one? https://www.w3.org/Guide/
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[snarfed]1 hey [manton] any chance you have a list of all micro.blog sites handy?
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[tantek]3 What is copy pasta
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "copy pasta" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "copy pasta is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek]3 Recently in copy pasta: https://www.theregister.com/2022/08/17/software_developer_cracks_hyundai_encryption/
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[tantek]3 I can't even
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capjamesg Can we get a definition [tantek]?
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capjamesg I'm tanteking tantek.
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capjamesg Meta-tantek?
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[tantek]3 https://programmingwithstyle.com/posts/howihackedmycar/
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[tantek]3 Yooooo new easter egg mode? (cc: capjamesg) "quickly pressing to the left of the Update button 10 times, and then once to the right of the button."
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@mikevdev Liking or replying to this tweet will result in your like or comment showing up at the bottom of the blog post. That's the power of #webmentions. #js #javascript #ts #webdev #indiedev https://mikevdv.dev/blog/2022-08-25-switching-to-webmention-comments (twitter.com/_/status/1562938549330186240)
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[tantek]3 lol HBody and HVehicle in https://programmingwithstyle.com/posts/howihackedmycarpart3/
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IWDiscordGateway <capjamesg> What is copy pasta?
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@juanfernandes Just read: "Webmention Setup for Eleventy" https://chrisburnell.com/article/webmention-eleventy-setup/ (twitter.com/_/status/1562948574698426368)
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[tantek]3 ^ is that a /read post?