#dev 2022-08-26

2022-08-26 UTC
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[schmarty] good post about Heroku free tier closing https://xeiaso.net/blog/rip-heroku
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[tantek]3 yes, quite good post
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[KevinMarks] Jack wishes twitter wasn't a company but a protocol https://twitter.com/jack/status/1562879638866915330?t=uIoynYGS-GOMWtqaIme5NQ&s=19
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@jack @wongmjane @ruudii2 A protocol. Def can’t be owned by a state, or company. Becomes clearer every day. (twitter.com/_/status/1562879638866915330)
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[manton]1 Thanks for the link, really interesting posts from Jack.
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GWG [manton]1: How's the location project going?
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[manton]1 @GWG Good, but haven’t done much on it lately… Need to work on a prototype mobile client that I can take out and about for testing.
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GWG [manton]1: Your work and some other conversations inspired me to cleanup my code and start the venue/place search code.
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GWG [manton]1: I would offer to help... but you probably mean iOS and I don't go enough places lately
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[manton]1 Cool. Ultimately we’re going to add location check-in to our app Sunlit, because I think photos and check-ins go well together. It speaks Micropub so I’ll want to make sure the location stuff is compatible with other sites.
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superkuh https://cheapskatesguide.org/articles/government-controlled-tls.html "TLS Certificate System More About Control than Protection of Internet Users"
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[tantek]3 [manton] meh not that interesting. lost me as soon as he mentioned bitcoin in a response to transaction volume which is laughable. jack's responses were picked apart quite well in the replies. I think what jack may have meant there is "open standards" rather than "a protocol".
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[tantek]3 also Twitter very early on supported XMPP and peer with XMPP clients like chat clients so it was a peer using a "protocol" that it decided to stop supporting
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[manton]1 [tantek] Yeah, to me the interesting part isn’t the details but just that he regrets having 1 company control so much of this.
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[manton]1 Wonder how Bluesky is going.
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[tantek]3 [manton] there were other companies at the time, and Twitter even got "peering" working with at least one (Jaiku). They just gave up when they saw they could dominate. No "open standard" fixes that kind of market-driven behavior.
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[snarfed] instant messaging in the AIM era was the main end user application on the hook during the Internet's transition from open/interoperable (email, web) to closed (social networks, video calling, etc)
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[snarfed] XMPP happened, and got some traction, but never won. Lots of bizdev pairwise interop deals happened, (AOL, Google, etc), and acquisitions happened (AOL w/ICQ), but the final result was not broad interop
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[tantek]3 to some extent the bizdev pairwise interop deals mirrored the need to do pairwise interop implementation, because the XMPP test was absolute crap
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[tantek]3 even if/when the will was there, "broad interop" was far too hard
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[snarfed] hard organizationally, yes
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[tantek]3 hard to implement
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[snarfed] oh and due to weak XMPP tooling maybe, sure, too
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[snarfed] broad interop w/XMPP specifically, sure
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[tantek]3 also the spec was(is?) horribly structured
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[manton]1 Even if Bluesky is perfect (debatable) it seems such a massive project to pivot Twitter’s infrastructure. Definitely can’t wait around assuming that will happen.
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[tantek]3 if all you did was implement the core XMPP spec you would get nearly zero interop with anything. You have to know which magic set of extensions (XEPs?) to XMPP that you have to implement to interop with others, then you have to do so in their quirky ways
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[schmarty] eyes ActivityPub
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[snarfed] oh [manton] btw https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2022-08-25#t1661464776706200
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Loqi [[snarfed]1] hey [manton] any chance you have a list of all micro.blog sites handy?
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[tantek]3 [schmarty] yeah it's not good that the ActivityPub test suite went offline and hasn't been restored 😞
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[schmarty] the test suite going offline is certainly a problem. but also the "magic set of extensions" you mentioned smacks of Mastodon-flavored ActivityPub and the way AP-based projects have to work with it.
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[tantek]3 yes there's a strong parallel there
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[schmarty] superkuh: pretty good piece. thanks for reminding me of the cheapskatesguide website. i'm trying not to fall into the rabbithole of it! 😅
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sknebel the AP test suite also never covered the federation bits of AP
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[snarfed] ie the most important interop part
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[schmarty] 😮
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[manton]1 [snarfed] Not handy… A large percentage are actually spammy blogs that I’d want to filter out. Probably most useful would be paid subscriptions and/or active users.
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[snarfed] oh I'd happily take the firehose, spam and all!
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[snarfed] not making any claims about them, just doing wm discovery
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[snarfed] (and we obviously know the answer for m.b sites, just hoping to include them in a dataset)
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[snarfed] (oh and sorry, not firehose of posts, just complete unedited list of domains)
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[manton]1 For the WM discovery, are you looking for outgoing links from M.b sites, or finding other links to M.b sites that you could send WMs for…? Just curious.
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[snarfed] oh neither, just purely wm endpoint, per domain, not per page
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[snarfed] I've done discovery on 1M domains so far, I'd love to include m.b sites to artificially enrich the numbers 😎
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[schmarty] [manton] for a test mobile client for meridian feel free to steal this awful thing: https://schmarty.net/moresquare/
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[schmarty] (just me playing with browser location API and leaflet)
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[schmarty] slap a call to meridian into it and drop some points in and around your location 😂
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[manton]1 Cool, thanks! Checking it out.
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[KevinMarks] Heh, I have a few of these. Leaflet makes it easy
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[KevinMarks] 2 that are trolling what3words locus.plus
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[KevinMarks] Hm, no hotlink? https://locus.plus
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[KevinMarks] https://www.fourkingmaps.co.uk/
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[KevinMarks] (that one locates you in the UK with 4 swear words)
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[schmarty] leaflet++
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Loqi leaflet has 1 karma over the last year
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