#dev 2022-09-07

2022-09-07 UTC
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@megarush1024 ↩️ I’ve been using http://Brid.gy on my site since 2015 and I love it and the functionality it provides. #Indieweb (https://arush.io/?p=214453) (twitter.com/_/status/1567323505191960576)
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@kevinmarks ↩️ Is this a case for IndieAuth? Maybe @aaronpk has an answer (twitter.com/_/status/1567342572971892737)
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[tantek]4 [jgarber] I updated with some caveats https://indieweb.org/page-name-discovery
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[jgarber] [tantek] Thank you!
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[jgarber] I'm still curious about “representative h-entry”… Webmention (if I recall correctly) tends to refer to the “first” h-entry on a page. Would that be a URL’s representative h-entry?
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[jgarber] Or, is there a different discovery algorithm akin to the “representative h-card” algorithm?
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[tantek]4 I think I may have had one in mind at the time but I have since forgotten
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[tantek]4 X-Ray has supposedly implemented it so I wonder if all it does is "first h-entry"
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[tantek]4 what is xray
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Loqi XRay is an open source API that returns structured data for a URL by parsing microformats and following other indieweb algorithms, and is part of the p3k suite of applications https://indieweb.org/XRay
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aaronpk now i can't remember but i think it might be looking for either the first or an h-entry with a u-url of the same URL that was fetched
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aaronpk yep, it does that for many different types https://github.com/aaronpk/XRay/blob/main/lib/XRay/Formats/Mf2.php#L87
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[jgarber] Thaaaat’s the code I was looking for last night, but couldn't locate. 😅
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[jgarber] A possible algorithm could borrow from the representative h-card algorithm… checking for u-url and/or u-uid matching the page's URL, etc.
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[tantek]4 ^ ah, that makes sense as a first step before falling back to "first h-entry"
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[jgarber] If “representative h-entry” discovery is up for grabs, I could take a swing at some code tonight implementing a possible approach. maybe.
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aaronpk i think "representative" applies to any object type, not limited to h-entry and h-card
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[jgarber] Can you expand on that thought?
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aaronpk for example why would "representative h-recipe" be any different than "representative h-entry"
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[jgarber] Great question. Supposing I don't fully understand (and/or it's not well documented) what exactly “representative” means with regards to microformat parsing.
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[jgarber] “This URL is canonically this thing”…?
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aaronpk it means "which of the mf2 objects on this page is this page actually about"
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[jgarber] So then a generalized algorithm for determining that?
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aaronpk yep, and in looking into this, i'd be curious if there are any instances where a generalized algorithm would be incorrect for a specific vocabulary
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aaronpk but i suspect it applies across the board
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[jgarber] What place does this (if any) have in a microformats parser library? and/or the JSON result of a parsed URL?
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aaronpk it has nothing to do with the microformats parser
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aaronpk but it is relevant to anything consuming the parsed result
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[jgarber] Gotcha
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[tantek]4 yeah if this "simple" approach works for h-entry, might be worth generalizing it to "representative mf2 item"
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[jgarber] This may need some work to generalize:
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[jgarber] > If no representative h-card was found, if the page contains an h-card with a url property value which also has a rel=me relation (i.e. matches a URL in parse_results.rels.me), the first such h-card is the representative h-card
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[jgarber] From https://microformats.org/wiki/representative-h-card-parsing
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[jgarber] But otherwise the representative h-card algorithm seems pretty generic.
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sknebel I think h-card has some special cases there, yes
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sknebel also when combining multiple things on a page
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sknebel e.g. someones homepage might have the representative h-card and "representative h-feed" (i.e. both having u-url u-uid pointing to the page)
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sknebel which probably(TM) doesnt happen much with other types
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[tantek]4 h-card has more special cases because people do more "interesting" things with h-cards on pages
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[jgarber] “Interesting” meaning how the h-card is marked up or…?
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[tantek]4 "interesting" as in people put random h-cards of things all over their pages
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[tantek]4 less so with feeds or other "primary" objects which are expected to take up a whole page
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[tantek]4 my homepage has a representative h-card, however the representative h-feed there would have to be from the "first h-feed" fallback
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[jgarber] Oh, I've seen what you're doing on your homepage. 😂
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[jgarber] https://micromicro.cc/search?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com
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Loqi micromicro.cc
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[tantek]4 wait what is this micromicro cc tool and where can we document it for better discoverability?!?
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[jgarber] Something I slapped together as a UI on top of MicroMicro (mf2 parser I built in Ruby). I added it to my wiki page, but haven't really talked it up.
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[jgarber] same same with indieweb-endpoints.cc and rel-me.cc. 😬
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[tantek]4 !!!
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[tantek]4 what is a validator
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Loqi Indiewebify.me is a service that checks how indieweb-compatible your site is and reports back its results; the verb indiewebify also means the act of making your site more IndieWeb friendly https://indieweb.org/validator
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[tantek]4 maybe we are ready to create a separate /validator page
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[jgarber] A generic algorithm seems desirable but there may be special cases for h-card and/or a user’s homepage?
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[jgarber] Coming back around to the “representative” thread…
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aaronpk sounds reasonable
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[tantek]4 A generic algo would likely need an additional input of “which specific root are you looking for”
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[tantek]4 And if you're not looking for a specific root then you want link preview discovery instead
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[tantek]4 Which tbh the original “page name discovery” should “just” use or be incorporated into link preview discovery
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[jgarber] What is link preview discovery?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "link preview discovery" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "link preview discovery is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[jgarber] Found it: https://indieweb.org/link-preview
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capjamesg Does https://indieauth.com/auth support the "token" endpoint?
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aaronpk no it's a separate service, https://tokens.indieauth.com
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capjamesg Sorry, I meant "ticket"
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capjamesg For TicketAuth.
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sknebel no
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capjamesg Are there any open ticket endpoints?
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sknebel no
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sknebel that also sounds extra difficult to implement
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sknebel at least in a useful way
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sknebel because something needs to use the token
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sknebel and arguably a lot more often than in current token uses
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sknebel (if HWC is still going in ~30 mins I'll join, making food right now)
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capjamesg I'm confused.
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capjamesg Do I need to build my own IndieAuth endpoint if I want to support redeeming tickets?
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@borghal I took a stab at implementing #webmentions in my blog. I'm leveling up my #IndieWeb game! https://borghal.blog/blog/2022-09/implementing-webmentions/ (twitter.com/_/status/1567617706509074433)
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capjamesg When i try to send a ticket request to indieauth I get 'error=invalid_request&error_description=Missing+%27code%27+parameter'.
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aaronpk indieauth.com isn't going to support any of that
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GWG cap
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GWG capjamesg: I had a ticket endpoint set up for testing
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capjamesg Is it still public GWG?
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GWG My test site, https://wpdev.gwg.us should still work, although I have not had a received token in a bit. I don't think I broke it
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gRegor Hm, got a 400 sending a webmention to webmention.io, "source or target missing" but they're both in my logs. Manually re-sending via curl worked. Might be time to work on my webmention plugin, it's been a while
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gRegor Loqi, maintain the software
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