#dev 2022-11-02

2022-11-02 UTC
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Loqi xeiaso has 1 karma over the last year
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[schmarty] xeiaso++ https://xeiaso.net/blog/openssl-alarm-fatigue
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@nezirzahirovic A Ruby gem for sending Webmention notifications. (from 28/05/2020) #ruby #rubyonrails #programming #gem #webmention https://www.rubyonrails.ba/single/a-ruby-gem-for-sending-webmention-notifications (twitter.com/_/status/1587686054030721025)
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Saphire Xe/Cadey is nice, yeah
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[KevinMarks] https://twitter.com/VicVijayakumar/status/1587462991955591168?t=gTQ5k0ZPdQvk0vZApwmLbg&s=19
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@VicVijayakumar 1995: PHP is dead, learn ColdFusion 2002: PHP is dead, learn ASP​.net 2003: PHP is dead, learn Django 2004: PHP is dead, learn Ruby on Rails 2010: PHP is dead, learn Flask 2011: PHP is dead, learn AngularJS 2016: PHP is dead, learn Next.js 2022: okay this is awkward (twitter.com/_/status/1587462991955591168)
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@megarush1024 I love it when I go to like or reply to something on the plain old semantic web from my own website and I see the little badge letting me know the site supports webmentions. Brick by brick. #indieweb (https://arush.io/?p=237690) (twitter.com/_/status/1587763622889005056)
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@philhawksworth ↩️ Excellent! Always keen to see more nice examples of this. Check out super references from the likes of: @mxbck: https://mxb.dev/blog/using-webmentions-on-static-sites/ @zachleat : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3SrZuH00GQ @t : https://tantek.com/2022/301/t1/twittermigration-bridgyfed-mastodon-indieweb All great food for thought (twitter.com/_/status/1587763034486882309)
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Xe [schmarty]: I understand that it was a stressful time but like holy crap as a user that did not go well in my eyes
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[schmarty] Xe: i very much agree and very much appreciate you putting it into words. not to mention your extremely good post with concrete steps for getting prepped for the release! thank you for both!!
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Xe [schmarty]: no problem! I've been thinking about doing a "SRE 101" online class and most of it would have things like that
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Xe how to prepare for these kinds of vulnerabilities, writing down instructions on how to deploy custom software, etc
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Xe keeping a work log and a weekly/monthly summary of what you got done so you can use that when review time comes around
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Xe oh and a surprising amount of philosophy
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Xe like the pager that cried wolf
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[schmarty] love some ops fables! 😀
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Xe [schmarty]: damnit you inspired me: https://pony.social/@cadey/109274801835937645
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Loqi [Xe] I want to make 2023 be the year that I work on and publish that online course about #sre/#devops essentials. Going to have a lot of philosophy, useful advice for navigating corporate structures, how to avoid "I told you so"s, handle catastrophic vuln...
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barnaby sounds like an interesting course, I’d definitely be interested in reading it. Never published anthing similar myself but video+blog posts on your site after some period of being only available to patrons sounds like a good model to me
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[schmarty] Xe: haha, o no. exciting, though! i have recently enjoyed Chris Ferdinandi's courses at gomakethings.com. He rolled his own platform that is a blend of video (private vimeo in his case) and sort-of-like-transcripts versions in HTML, ebook formats, etc.
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[schmarty] i forget where i read this but if i recall correctly the site structured so all the public stuff is static HTML and all the requires-payment stuff is fetched through an auth wall and cached via serviceworker.
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[Murray] Heh, weird community crossovers 😄 Chris was talking about that earlier today on the Frontend Horse Discord, as to whether it might be better using fully static (SSG) HTML and redirects, but yeah that's how I understood it to work currently 🙂
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barnaby https://fasterthanli.me has a patreon login which presumably makes extra content available to pateons
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[tantek] PHP << https://twitter.com/VicVijayakumar/status/1587462991955591168
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Loqi ok, I added "https://twitter.com/VicVijayakumar/status/1587462991955591168" to the "See Also" section of /PHP https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=84133&oldid=72894
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[manton] [tantek] Delayed reply… Thanks for that 404 heads-up, I looked into it and Hover reorganized their help pages… I found one that seems pretty much the same and updated the link to it.
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barnaby Zagura[m]: regarding webmentions vs activitypub posts, they’re technically quite different even if they can be used to create similar UX and interactions (replying, liking etc)
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barnaby the main difference is that (afaik) activitypub posts contain a copy of the activity or “object” they’re about, whereas a webmention is just a ping which tells one page that another page has linked to it
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jacky a thin payload versus a thick one
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barnaby so with webmentions, it’s up to the receiver to fetch the sending page and do something with it — for example parse it, see if there’s a valid reply there, and if so, display it under the original post
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barnaby exactly jacky
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jacky b/c even things like signing messages, embedding verbiage are all done out of band of the actual sending of the webmention (whereas you gotta do that on each message sent)
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barnaby the main trade-off is that webmentions are easier to send but a little more complicated to parse, whereas provided you can verify an activitypub message’s signature then you can trust that its data is valid
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barnaby hope that’s useful, feel free to ask if you have further questions!
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Zagura[m] idk how i found it, but how webmentions.io work then?
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barnaby what is webmention.io
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Loqi webmention.io is an open-source project and hosted service for receiving webmentions and pingbacks on behalf of your indieweb site https://indieweb.org/webmention.io
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barnaby ^ that’s the tl;dr, it’s a hosted service which can do all the hard parts of receiving webmentions for you
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Zagura[m] hosting a dynamic website seems like a lot of work (& not free), so i was hoping it could work with a static site
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barnaby you direct potential webmention senders there instead of to an endpoint on your site, and it parses+verifies the sender, and gives you a simple JSON API you can fetch to show responses
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barnaby yep, webmention.io is a good method for handling responses on a static site
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Zagura[m] neat, thanks a lot
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barnaby Zagura[m]: in case you haven’t seen it already, lots of resources for making static indieweb sites here https://indieweb.org/static_site
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[KevinMarks]1 There is also webmention.herokuapp.com that creates the webmention html inline for your static pages
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rubenwardy Hi
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rubenwardy <a class="d-none p-author h-card" rel="author" href="http://rubenwardy.com">rubenwardy</a>
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rubenwardy Ok, so the docs led me to believe that I can add a h-card to my homepage and then reference that as rel=author from other pages. But the IndieWebify.me tool doesn't seem to be picking that up.
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Loqi Andrew Ward
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rubenwardy you can see it live at https://blog.rubenwardy.com/2022/03/24/contentdb/
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Loqi [rubenwardy] Developing ContentDB
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@voxpelli ↩️ Even more important: Do not use the same code base. That was what killed StatusNet / Identica – the precursors to Mastodon which defined the OStatus protocol which Mastodon started out on. Compare itto eg Webmention which has heaps of implementations: https://indieweb.org/Webmention (twitter.com/_/status/1587911238331248640)
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barnaby rubenwardy: which page are you trying to validate on indiewebify.me? it finds your homepage h-card fine, and seems to find some author information on that post https://indiewebify.me/validate-h-entry/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fblog.rubenwardy.com%2F2022%2F03%2F24%2Fcontentdb%2F
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rubenwardy the blog URL
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rubenwardy It says "Add a photo!" despite there being a photo on rubenwardy.com
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barnaby here? https://indiewebify.me/validate-h-card/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fblog.rubenwardy.com%2F
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rubenwardy on a post page
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rubenwardy no, the h-card is on https://rubenwardy.com
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Loqi Andrew Ward
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barnaby afaik indiewebify.me doesn’t always follow and parse external pages, it works mostly with the microformats markup on one particular page
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rubenwardy Ok. Is it fine then, or should I duplicate the info? The getting started guide says:
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rubenwardy > Why? When you publish content, you can link back to your home page using rel-author and your authorship information can be retrieved from the h-card.
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[KevinMarks]1 In general, mf2 parsers don't follow links to other pages (unless they're explicitly doing xfn style rel=me link graphs)
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barnaby your homepage h-card looks fine to me, whether you want to duplicate the info is up to you — it mostly depends on what authorship info you want to make visible on the blog subdomain
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barnaby a lot of people have a “full” profile h-card on their domain, and additionally have simple name+photo+url authorship h-cards on individual post or feed pages
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aaronpk what is authorship?
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Loqi authorship is how to indicate who the author is for a post, and an algorithm that determines the author of a post https://indieweb.org/authorship
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aaronpk more info there ^^
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barnaby because very often it makes sense to have that data human-readable anyway
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barnaby and that way, parsers which are looking at an individual post get basic author information for free, and can follow the link to parse a more detailed h-card if they want
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rubenwardy that makes sense, thanks
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barnaby so IMO the next logical step for you would be adding h-feed and h-entry markup to https://blog.rubenwardy.com/
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barnaby and if you don’t want to have a small author profile on indvidual post pages, then a rel=author will be sufficient for any implementations which follow the authorship algorithm
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barnaby just be aware that it might not show up on indiewebify.me
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@voxpelli ↩️ And with eg https://fed.brid.gy/ one can even interact across ecosystems: https://tantek.com/2022/301/t1/twittermigration-bridgyfed-mastodon-indieweb Personally I don’t want to host some WordPress:esque service. I want it to be my generated static site so that I don’t have to worry about hosting that much. (twitter.com/_/status/1587914427009228800)
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rubenwardy should h-feed also be on tag pages, such as https://blog.rubenwardy.com/tags/projects/ ? Should the u-url be the tag page or the blog homepage?
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barnaby h-feed is for whenever you have a collection of posts which belong together and could be subscribed to, so yep, tag pages are ideal for that
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barnaby and the u-url of an h-feed is the canonical URL for that feed specifically
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barnaby https://monocle.p3k.io/preview is a good tool for previewing how a feed reader might interpret your feed
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rubenwardy will h-feed understand pagination? I have rel=next / prev on the links. Although they're outside the h-feed, should maybe change that
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barnaby rel next/prev is used for pagination, and they cover the entire page, so you don’t need to have them inside the element with class=h-feed
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gRegor Note in https://indieweb.org/authorship-spec#Algorithm we recommend against rel-author for new sites/posts (mentioned in step 6)
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rubenwardy thanks
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rubenwardy what's the difference between u-author and p-author?
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gRegor Thought I was just reminded of https://indieweb.org/rel-author#Questions, which I'm not sure how applicable that still is
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gRegor The prefix tells parsers how to find the value, more on https://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-prefixes
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gRegor u- for URL properties, p- for plaintext, etc.
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barnaby the difference between u-author and p-author is extremely minimal if its nesting an embedded h-card, which should almost always be the case for the author property
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barnaby it changes how the value of the “value” key in the embedded h-card is parsed (as plain text or as a URL)
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barnaby you can play around with some markup and see the parsed results in real time here to get a sense for exactly what happens https://waterpigs.co.uk/php-mf2/
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[timothy_chambe] Agree with everything he's saying, except the idea that Subtack is anything but marginally better than Twitter at helping you "own your own platform." https://twitter.com/hamishmckenzie/status/1587849734181425152
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@hamishmckenzie The problem isn’t that Elon Musk owns Twitter – it’s that you don’t. We shouldn’t have to freak out about a dictator taking over a vast digital empire. People should control platforms rather than the other way round. (twitter.com/_/status/1587849734181425152)
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[tantek] [benatwork] why consider self-hosting a Mastodon instance instead of Withknown + Bridgy Fed?
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[tantek] the latter is A LOT less /admintax
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[tantek] plenty of "smart people" have attempted solo hosted Mastodon instances and given up after months.
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[tantek] (if not days/weeks)
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[tantek] and yes we're having this conversation in #indieweb-dev because no non-dev should be even remotely considering self-hosting a Mastodon instance
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[tantek] or even bothered with the noise about discussing the possibility thereof
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[tantek] I mean it's your discretionary hobby time if you feel like spending it on Mastodon /admintax
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AramZ-S[m] I think also... it's not really what Mastodon is for? I've been talking to a bunch of folks and generally what I'm starting to get a sense of is that the best reason to start up a Masto instance is because you have a community that can have a unified set of rules and build a useful and mutrually engaging Local. I don't think it makes sense from a project perspective to self-host Masto unless you've got a plan for it. Solo
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AramZ-S[m] self-hosted Mastos seem just wasteful.
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barnaby yeah, something like microblog.pub seems like the better alternative for single-user instances who want indieweb and AP support built in
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barnaby mastodon doesn’t send webmentions natively, right? did anyone make a bridge to send them already?
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barnaby seems like all you’d need would be to set up an AP identity which people can follow, and whenever it receives a new post, it goes and sends the relevant webmentions for it