#dev 2022-11-29

2022-11-29 UTC
petermolnar, mouse[d], IWDiscordRelay, pharalia, catgirlinspace and [catgirlinspace] joined the channel
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gRegor Welcome [catgirlinspace] o/
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gRegor What is Eleventy
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Loqi Eleventy is a JavaScript based static site generator that allows the user to select their own preferred template engine and theme, which in practice can and does enable use of microformats2 https://indieweb.org/Eleventy
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gRegor I don't have experience with it myself, but I know some in the community do. Feel free to ask questions here though
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[catgirlinspace] can i just copy+paste my question over from #indieweb?
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gRegor Hopefully not link overload, haha
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gRegor Sure!
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[catgirlinspace] is there a good way to implement other indie web features like short-form notes and outbound webmentions with Eleventy? so far i only have microformats and incoming webmentions with brid.gy
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gRegor https://indieweb.org/Telegraph may be helpful for sending webmentions
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[catgirlinspace] mhm, i used that to manually send a webmention but wasn't sure how exactly i would automate doing it with eleventy
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gRegor what is webmention.app
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Loqi Webmention is a web standard for conversations and interactions across the web, a powerful building block used for a growing distributed network of peer-to-peer comments, likes, reposts, and other responses across the web https://indieweb.org/webmention.app
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[catgirlinspace] looks like webmention.app is pretty easy to setup just looking through the homepage, i think i'll look into it more!
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gRegor That links to a subsection, but here's the webmention.app docs with some options: https://webmention.app/docs
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[catgirlinspace] oh the netlify section of the instructions looks like it just involves setting a webhook. i could do that real quick i think
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[catgirlinspace] at the end of the webhook url it has `&url=[your-feed-url]`. would this be my rss feed or my homepage?
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[catgirlinspace] i guess for stuff involving short form notes, likes, bookmarks, etc. i'd probably want to switch to a server-sided thing instead of eleventy then?
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[catgirlinspace] i feel like trying to add that to eleventy by adding stuff to a git repo for that would be kinda janky. and i'd probably need something server-sided anyways to actually add the content i think
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[aciccarello] You do need a server for micropub support but are open source projects to update a git repo for static sites.
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[aciccarello] I have an 11ty based site. I don't have a lot of short form content but I'm expanding slowly
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[eddie] You CAN do all the stuff with a static site (I did it for a LONG time) but if it’s something you interact with a lot (similar to using Twitter) you’ll eventually want it driven by server side. That’s what happened to me
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[jamietanna] catgirlinspace a friend of mine has used Netlify functions to add a server-side portion to their static site, so you could look at that to add a Micropub endpoint?
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@MastaBaba ↩️ There's a Wordpress plugin that takes care of webmentions. Just installed it on https://babakfakhamzadeh.com. Let's see how this behaves. (twitter.com/_/status/1597551945300180994)
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@edent WebMentions, Privacy, and DDoS – Oh My! https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2022/11/webmentions-privacy-and-ddos-oh-my/ (twitter.com/_/status/1597569861143642113)
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[catgirlinspace] [jamietanna] maybe, but i feel like maybe just going server-sided would be best from what others are saying.
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[catgirlinspace] what are others using for the server side part? i think i saw [aaronpk] used php and slim for a lot of p3k?
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[jamietanna] It's up to you, I've been on Hugo for a while with a couple of server-side things to make it feel more dynamic
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[jamietanna] https://github.com/barryf/vibrancy/ is quite good by barryf, and is all in the AWS free tier
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cambridgeport90[ The only thing that to me seems odd about that... Why lock it to AWS rather than allow one to choose their form of hosting?
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[schmarty] barryf could tell you for sure but i suspect it's because that's what he's familiar with.
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[snarfed] It uses https://arc.codes/, which uses AWS CloudFormation
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[snarfed] cambridgeport90 in general there's a tradeoff between using proprietary tools/platforms, which sometimes have unique features that you might like, vs standards, which are great for portability but can sometimes lag in supporting newer or niche features
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[snarfed] (^ er, looks like it uses both CloudFormation and Lambda)
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[tantek] unintended effects (or longterm planned genius?) of "just" using live "display names" rather than storing them at the time of content creation, thread: https://mastodon.social/@knowtheory/109422493096172456
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Loqi [Ted Han ★ 韓聖安] lmao, i didn't realize that Twitter's blog ties into its account display names.cc @ruchowdh https://files.mastodon.social/media_attachments/files/109/422/479/437/391/381/original/0eac2fdcbd159b7d.png
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[tantek] (more examples in thread)
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[schmarty] i feel like this has been discussed here before but i think this is a really cool thing. a little registry of folks who have archived their twitter accounts to their own sites that allows rewriting links to their tweets to land on their archive pages. https://github.com/tweetback/tweetback-canonical
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Loqi [tweetback] tweetback-canonical: A package to resolve twitter URLs to new canonically hosted twitter backups
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[catgirlinspace] hm, maybe building a website with a backend using deno.land + liquid for templating would be neat.
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[snarfed] (...from #indieweb-meta) ...or, wait, maybe I have https://apfollow.mwt.me/ backwards. is it just a third party way to do the remote follow UI that I recently added to BF user pages, eg https://fed.brid.gy/user/tantek.com ?
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[tantek] ^ yes, that
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[snarfed] ok then I don't know what kind of discovery it's trying to do 🤷
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[tantek] my understanding is that through a service like apfollow.mwt, I could put a "Follow me" link on my site with just that URL, and that someone logged into their own Mastodon instance would be presented with a "follow @tantek.com" UI in their own instance and then be able to confirm
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[tantek] my point being, that apfollow.mwt URL as constructed (and added to the wiki) fails with a useless / unactionable error
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[tantek] so it's a caveat to the wiki entry, since so far there is zero success in this community with using that code or sample service
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[snarfed] right
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[tantek] it's a bit of pushback for, please don't add random code libaries/services to the wiki as something to implicitly try unless you have tried / are trying it yourself
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[tantek] no reason to have our wiki link to potential dead-ends / frustrations
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[tantek] (unless it's a deliberate warning about something obv)
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[tantek] i'll add that point to #indieweb-meta
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aaronpk i tested it with my mastodon.social account and also my aaronparecki.com account and it brought me to the follow UI on my site in both cases
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[tantek] ^ ok so this is what makes me think that you (your site) is doing something to make that work that Bridgy Fed is not quite fully responding to
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aaronpk yeah i had to do some sort of webfinger thingy to make it work
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aaronpk in my webfinger profile i have a rel=http://ostatus.org/schema/1.0/subscribe URL
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aaronpk with a value of `https://aaronparecki.com/settings/follow?acct={uri}`
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Loqi Aaron Parecki
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[tantek] oh noooooo
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aaronpk lol
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[tantek] aaronpk, see the Slack preview
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aaronpk uhoh
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[snarfed] right, that's the rel link I mentioned in #indieweb-meta that I need to add to BF
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aaronpk omg
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aaronpk ostatus
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aaronpk RIP
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[tantek] and this is why rel values with URLs don't work, semantic web depending on URLs to mean terms don't work etc.
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[tantek] gotta capture your meaning in words & terms, not URLs
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[tantek] vocabulary++
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Loqi vocabulary has 1 karma over the last year
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[tantek] namespaces--
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Loqi namespaces has -2 karma in this channel over the last year (-3 in all channels)
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[tantek] beautiful illustration aaronpk, if unintended 😂
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[tantek] what is a zombie
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Loqi zombie is in the context of the web a website that had died (site-deaths), perhaps due to domain registration neglect, and has been brought back by some other looking sorta like it did before, but oddly broken, often with spam pages/links added, and eats a lot of CPU likely due to abusive scripts https://indieweb.org/zombie
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[tantek] close but that's not it
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[snarfed] unrelated, [tantek] you asked about BF stats, I now have realtime (ie rate) monitoring for a number of things, eg these. 30qpm of Deletes, whee. https://snarfed.org/bf-activities-instances.png
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aaronpk what is a zombie?
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Loqi 🧟‍♀️🧟‍♂️ zombie is in the context of the web a website that had died (site-deaths), perhaps due to domain registration neglect, and has been brought back by some other looking sorta like it did before, but oddly broken, often with spam pages/links added, and eats a lot of CPU likely due to abusive scripts https://indieweb.org/zombie
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aaronpk yessss
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aaronpk emojis in "what is" responses
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[tantek] hahahaha wat
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Loqi [tantek]: lol
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[tantek] aaronpk how?!?
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[tantek] snarfed++ nice charts! and so many deletes, whoa
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Loqi snarfed has 45 karma in this channel over the last year (83 in all channels)
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aaronpk the emojicon template includes p-logo! so it was right there in the mf2
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aaronpk https://php.microformats.io/?url=https%3A%2F%2Findieweb.org%2Fzombie
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[Michelle_Moore] Hello, Does anyone here know what this means? I am testing Telegraph and have the IndieAuth plugin installed in my WordPress 6.1.1 site.
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[Michelle_Moore] ```HTTP 400
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[Michelle_Moore] {"response":{"error":"invalid_grant","error_description":"Invalid authorization code"},"raw_response":"{\"error\":\"invalid_grant\",\"error_description\":\"Invalid authorization code\"}","response_code":400}```
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GWG Why not use the WordPress Webmention plugin then?
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GWG Telegraph is a hosted service
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[Michelle_Moore] I did but it didn’t seem to work. But maybe I just need to understand what a test case would be to test it. How would you test it?
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aaronpk you should be able to use this to see if your webmention sending is working https://webmention.rocks/test/1 just make a post that mentions that URL
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Loqi [Webmention Rocks!] Discovery Test #1
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Loqi +1
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[Michelle_Moore] Thank you [aaronpk]. I will try it.
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[Michelle_Moore] [aaronpk] What are the minimum WordPress plugins that I should have to make this work? Do I need to set anything up at Brid.gy? I would like to start from scratch.
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aaronpk that would be a question for GWG, and also this wiki page https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started_on_WordPress
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[Michelle_Moore] OK, thank you!
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[aciccarello] I'm curious if anyone has automated tests to check if the microformats on their site changes
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[ender] I have the error:
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[ender] ```Your IndieAuth server did not return a valid state parameter```
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[ender] I just have this on my site's homepage (`index.html`):
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[ender] <link rel="token_endpoint" href="https://tokens.indieauth.com/token">
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[ender] ``` <link rel="authorization_endpoint" href="https://indieauth.com/auth">
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[ender] <link rel="webmention" href="https://webmention.io/enderverse.org/webmention" />
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[ender] <link rel="pingback" href="https://webmention.io/enderverse.org/xmlrpc" />
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[ender] <p class="h-card">
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[ender] <a class="p-name u-url" href="https://enderverse.org">ender</a> <br>
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[ender] <a class="u-url" href="https://github.com/genderev" rel="me">@genderev</a>
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[ender] <a class="u-url" href="https://github.com/enderminyard" rel="me"> @enderminyard</a><br>
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[ender] </p>```
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[ender] the indielogin.com site suggests that I look at the setup instructions page for help, but I looked at it and I thought I did everything I was supposed to: https://indielogin.com/setup
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Loqi How to Set Up Your Website for IndieLogin.com
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aaronpk what is giving you that error?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "giving you that error" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "giving you that error is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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aaronpk oops haha
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aaronpk not you Loqi
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[ender] oh, I was trying to log into `https://webmention.io/dashboard` but the issue went away on its own?
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[ender] I could not reproduce the issue
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aaronpk odd
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[ender] (I never received your webmention [capjamesg] 😞 )
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> Oh no!
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> I just sent it again. Let me know if you still didn't get it.
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> aaronpk What does "target not found" mean?
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> https://webmention.io/enderverse.org/webmention/kDIF1ZNEoqjY3ZZ48Gmr
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[ender] [capjamesg] yay 🙂 🙂
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[ender] wait - target not found? is that important
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aaronpk it means it failed to fetch the target URL
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sknebel [capjamesg]: probably that wm.io didnt find the link to the target in the source page?
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aaronpk hmm some ssl error
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sknebel ah
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sknebel aaronpk: fetch the *target* url?
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[ender] thanks for saying you like my website [capjamesg] even if there was a technical issue...
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aaronpk oh wait
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aaronpk no
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aaronpk i should really change that error message
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[ender] webmention.io/dashboard says I have no webmentions, I'm not sure what i did wrong?
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sknebel nothing
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sknebel I think :D
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aaronpk ok it looks like your website redirects to www.enderverse.org
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aaronpk which means your webmention endpoint is actually https://webmention.io/www.enderverse.org/webmention
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aaronpk "target_not_found" is a bad name for that, it really means the webmention endpoint is not found
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sknebel oh
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sknebel didnt know it checks that
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sknebel :D
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> [ender] You'll need to update your webmention endpoint then I'll send the mention again 🙂
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[chrisaldrich] [Michelle_Moore]++
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Loqi [Michelle_Moore] has 1 karma over the last year
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[Michelle_Moore] [chrisaldrich] I am determined to get the last few items to work.
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[jamietanna] accicarello I used to have a suite of tests to validate my mf2, but my site got too big for me to test it so often so I stopped
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[aciccarello] I need to do a review of my site's microformats structure and was thinking some tests that check the outputted HTML for a few example posts of each type might be a good check to make sure I don't screw things up in future changes.
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@voxpelli ↩️ I would say: Start with a Mastodon profile somewhere, I think eg. @matteocollina and many others are on https://fosstodon.org/, then add in the IndieWeb stuff later through eg https://fed.brid.gy/ (twitter.com/_/status/1597708333741674496)
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[tantek] [Michelle_Moore]++ nicely done and congrats!@
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Loqi [Michelle_Moore] has 2 karma over the last year
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