#dev 2022-11-30

2022-11-30 UTC
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gRegor [snarfed], minor: BF says 5 followers but when I click through only shows 4. Missing https://toot.cafe/@aciccarello
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Loqi Anthony Ciccarello
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gRegor I don't see toot.cafe in the logs when I post, either, so maybe that follow back got dropped somehow
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[tantek] for the security minded, and in case you were ever tempted to allow a "user option" to view/embed HTML in your content platform/OSS/service: https://portswigger.net/research/stealing-passwords-from-infosec-mastodon-without-bypassing-csp
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[jacky] I think they patched this in all of the forks but mainline
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[tantek] yes I believe so and before the blog post was made public
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[tantek] like it wasn't a zero day
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[schmarty] namecheap is down and i can't update my DNS lol https://www.namecheap.com/status-updates/archives/73591
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Loqi [Dmitriy Khablak] [Started] Namecheap.com emergency maintenance
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aaronpk TIL namecheap has microformats on their blog lol
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gRegor good ole wordpress
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[ender] [capjamesg] I tried updating it!
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[Michelle_Moore] [tantek] Thank you!!
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GWG aaronpk: Does Compass work with PHP8?
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aaronpk I am not sure about that
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GWG Seems not to.
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[schmarty] been having a bit of fun reworking my old micropub clients, trying to extract a bunch of the common plumbing, etc. slowly moving them to a new bayside.pub side and, _i guess_, leaning into this terrible naming scheme i started so long ago. :}
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[schmarty] heh, autolinking doesn't recognize dot-pub. okay! it's https://bayside.pub/
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[snarfed] gRegor thanks for the report! should be fixed now
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jeremycherfas Is /Together still being developed? It doesn't seem to find my h-card on some posts, although /mf2 does. And it also seems to have trouble with another feed, bringing in old items that I know I have read. Of course, that could be a fault with the feed, although NewsBlur does handle it.
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@lordmatt Panel 2 of #BeansInDungeons. Originally published (and WebMention target): https://matrixdreams.com/beans-in-dungeons/heroes-needed/2021/07/needing-a-hand/ #WebComic #DnD #RatherSilly #IMadeThis (twitter.com/_/status/1597869921442168833)
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[snarfed] re nitter ie de-jsing Mastodon, you could do a bare bones version of that really quickly by just fetching the AS2 versions of actors, objects, etc and passing them through granary
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[snarfed] could almost do it with URL munging alone, no code needed, _except_ for conneg
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[snarfed] goddamn conneg--
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Loqi conneg has -13 karma in this channel over the last year (-16 in all channels)
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[tantek] lol snarfed actually said "just need conneg" without emojis/emoticons
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[snarfed] can you configure any IFTTT or similar service to add HTTP headers? if so this is doable low/no code
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[snarfed] ugh I'm now sorely nerd-snipe-tempted to throw this together quickly
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superkuh Dew it.
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aaronpk 😂
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aaronpk i tried pasting the outbox URL into monocle preview to see if that would work but sadly it does not
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aaronpk this is a not-conneg version of the JSON for a user https://mastodon.social/users/apktest/outbox?page=true
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superkuh Uhg. Not http either so my local tools can't connect because their ssl is rejected.
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[snarfed] but it doesn't have any of the profile content we care about. eg here it is converted to mf2: https://granary.io/url?input=as2&output=mf2-json&url=https%3A%2F%2Fmastodon.social%2Fusers%2Fapktest%2Foutbox%3Fpage%3Dtrue
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[snarfed] woo, added the conneg to granary and it works, deploying now
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[snarfed] also conneg--
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[snarfed] it's live! I think. plug any Mastodon AS2 URL into https://granary.io/?input=as2&output=mf2-json#logins and it will give you mf2 JSON
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[snarfed] even the user-visible ones like https://granary.io/?input=as2&output=mf2-json#logins , doesn't need the exact AS2 URLs
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[snarfed] eg https://indieweb.social/@snarfed works
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Loqi Ryan Barrett
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[snarfed] and posts like https://indieweb.social/@tchambers/109243684867780200
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Loqi [Tim Chambers] Welcome to the many, many new users to this instance TONIGHT, and & for many of you, welcome to the #Mastodon & the #Fediverse. Promise this will be different than Twitter for those of you migrating on the Elon news. We're working to make it BETTER t...
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[snarfed] here's that post in mf2 HTML: https://granary.io/url?input=as2&output=html&url=https%3A%2F%2Findieweb.social%2F%40tchambers%2F109243684867780200
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Loqi [https://indieweb.social/users/tchambers] Welcome to the many, many new users to this instance TONIGHT, and & for many of you, welcome to the #Mastodon & the #Fediverse. Promise this will be different than Twitter for those of you migrating on the Elon news. We're working to make it BETTER t...
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[snarfed] not pretty, eg no profile picture, but still, server fetchable
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barnaby interesting to see opalstack jumping on the managed mastodon hosting bandwagon https://www.opalstack.com/blog/2022/11/29/mastodon-hosting-on-opalstack-is-here/
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superkuh I guess I'll use /api/v1/statuses/$statusid for now. I think that gets the full text? But I'm not willing to run the JS to be sure.
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[tantek] Anyone know the dev reasons why a Mastodon "explore" page would be empty? https://w3c.social/explore — I know folks on that server are posting things so this seems a bit odd
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[manton] [tantek] Don’t know, but I’ve noticed that in other (usually single-person) instances. It would be very good to document how “trends” work in Mastodon. Probably a post has some threshold of boosts or replies it needs to trend?
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[manton] To nitpick, a platform that markets itself as “no algorithms” should probably be transparent about this. Although I know they mean no algorithmic “timeline”, not necessarily no algorithmic other features.
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aaronpk also there's no such thing as no algorithm
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aaronpk reverse chronological sorting is literally a sorting algorithm
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[tantek] hah
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[manton] Yep! Everything is an algorithm, but when people say algorithm they really mean: this does not work in any obvious way.
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[tantek] agreed
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[tantek] right [manton], the user use of the term "algorithm" (in fact any user having to worry about the term at all) means they are having to stress about something happening that is unpredictable to them
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[tantek] obviously all software has tons of algorithms, but they are there to implement the user's expectations
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[tantek] an "algorithmic feed" violates user expectations hence it gets labeled that way
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[manton] Exactly. I wrote a chapter about this in my book… Which coincidentally features a Tantek quote at the top! https://book.micro.blog/unattended-algorithms/
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[schmarty] re: conneg - I know Mastodon has a couple of endpoints that allow for extensions-as-type-hints. e.g. you can get the RSS feed for a give mastodon profile by adding .rss (https://w3c.social/@w3c.rss)
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[schmarty] yep adding .json works https://w3c.social/@w3c.json
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Loqi World Wide Web Consortium
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[schmarty] oh ha my bad. of course it does, this is the profile information, not the outbox. sorry folks.
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aaronpk what is algorithm?
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Loqi An algorithm in general is a series of steps used to to automatically perform computations and other operations to produce a result; on the IndieWeb many standards have user-centric algorithms for peer to peer site interactions; social media silos have user-exploitative algorithms for advertising and reinforcing addictive behaviors https://indieweb.org/algorithm
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aaronpk algorithm << https://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/202x/2022/11/28/On-Algorithms
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Loqi ok, I added "https://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/202x/2022/11/28/On-Algorithms" to the "See Also" section of /algorithm https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=84751&oldid=79076
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aaronpk algorithm << https://book.micro.blog/unattended-algorithms/
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Loqi ok, I added "https://book.micro.blog/unattended-algorithms/" to the "See Also" section of /algorithm https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=84752&oldid=84751
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@RobbiNespu Testing webmention on my custom hugo theme made by me from scratch https://journal.robbi.my/posts/markdown-syntax/ (twitter.com/_/status/1598009931877302272)
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[KevinMarks] https://mastodon.social/@Edent/109433874370110294
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superkuh Self-hosting an RSS reader seems like such a cargo-cult idea. Don't make it web-shit at all. Just use a native application.
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[KevinMarks] I suggest aperture/monocle
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aaronpk that's a little more than an RSS reader
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aaronpk and arguably not the same experience as you'd expect from a traditional RSS reader
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[tantek] who knows what people actually mean when they say "RSS reader"
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[tantek] it's a horrible jargon term that has shifted meaning over two decades
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superkuh Won't be too long before people are self-hosting browsers in a browser.
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[tantek] superkuh, FirefoxOS already did that 🙂
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[snarfed] re Bridgy Fed post links inside Mastodon: BF aggressively uses the site's original URLs for AP object ids/urls, _except_ in a handful of parts where Mastodon interop requires their domain to be the same domain that's serving them. in those cases it uses the /r/ URL you saw that redirects back
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[tantek] snarfed++ looks good and makes sense! bridgyfed++
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Loqi bridgyfed has 3 karma over the last year
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Loqi snarfed has 46 karma in this channel over the last year (85 in all channels)
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[snarfed] you can also get rid of that visible link in your post, probably by putting it outside e-content
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[tantek] it's fine. if my blog posts help increase awareness of Bridgy Fed, so be it
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[tantek] at least some of the webdev audience I have digs into anything that looks "interesting" in my posts, so I do like little crumbs & clues like that
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gRegor snarfed++ very cool. Might be good to mention articles explicitly in the docs. I held off federating because it wasn't clear if it would send full text.
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Loqi snarfed has 47 karma in this channel over the last year (86 in all channels)
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[KevinMarks] Terence Eden has most of the pieces to use a social reader already, he may need to app micropub
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[KevinMarks] *add
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gRegor The fed.brid.gy link looks more obvious to me than the muted color link preview under the Mastodon post, so that's cool
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gRegor No image in my link preview, so that probably is part of it being less obvious
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[tantek] gRegor, glad to be the canary 😂
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gRegor Though worst case, guess it could have let to me trying Mastodon delete posts :)
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[snarfed] https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/issues/30
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[snarfed] should be straightforward
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Loqi [swentel] #30 Allow posts to be deleted
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gRegor Nice
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gRegor [snarfed], Does BF convert p-category to hashtags? I tried a hashtag in the post text but doesn't look like it linked it on masto
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gRegor (I didn't try with p-category yet)
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[tantek] 👀
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gRegor >_>
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[snarfed] 😭 https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/issues/45
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Loqi [EdwardHinkle] #45 Post with hashtag doesn’t get linked?
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gRegor sorry, I really should search issues first! snarfed++
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Loqi snarfed has 48 karma in this channel over the last year (87 in all channels)
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[ender] https://book.micro.blog/ is cool ...
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[ender] is it possible to create an rss feed from an h-feed?
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[ender] I think granary will work, nvm
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> Ah yes! That book was published by [manton] I believe.
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> [ender] I use granary for that.
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> What is unmung?
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> https://IndieWeb.org/unmung
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> Unmung also supports the opposite conversion — rss to feed — but I think Granary does too.
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gRegor [ender], yep, I use granary to convert my h-feed to Atom
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jamietanna snarfed++ is it expected that https://granary.io/url?input=as2&output=html&url=https%3A%2F%2Findieweb.social%2F%40tchambers does't show any posts, just the profile?
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Loqi snarfed has 49 karma in this channel over the last year (88 in all channels)
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Loqi Tim Chambers
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[snarfed] jamietanna yes, because the https://indieweb.social/users/tchambers AS2 object itself is just the profile
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Loqi Tim Chambers
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[snarfed] posts may be in the outbox, https://indieweb.social/users/tchambers/outbox, but there's no guarantee that they'll actually be there, or how many
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[snarfed] looks like they're there if you follow the paging, eg https://indieweb.social/users/tchambers/outbox?page=true
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[snarfed] unrelated, I've been trying to get bio and web site links to show up in BF's profiles on Mastodon. Mastodon puts them in the summary and attachment fields, but it's not rendering those fields from BF, even after I send Update activities for the profiles 😐
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jamietanna Ah interesting. Trying to find the best way to follow Mastodon folks in Aperture, cause I'm seeing 0 posts from RSS for some folks, and for others I get the posts but i.e. no photos, so I still need to open them up on the source site
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[snarfed] yeah I don't know how reliable mastodon AS2 collections to granary will be. I suggest you follow them via BF and then use your BF feed instead
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jamietanna Gotcha, thanks!
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@brianwisti ↩️ And http://webmention.io is a hosted service that can likely do what you need. I have one core identity at http://randomgeekery.org, and other toy sites point to my http://webmention.io endpoint for that site. They show up as interactions for one site, but URLs disambiguate. (twitter.com/_/status/1598070705673105410)
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@schnarfed ↩️ Also https://fed.brid.gy/! (twitter.com/_/status/1598071537483251712)
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[snarfed] filed https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/21904
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Loqi [snarfed] #21904 How can federated actors' summary and attachment fields get rendered?
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aaronpk huh i was able to do that
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aaronpk https://media.aaronpk.com/2022/11/30140618-2724.png
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aaronpk [snarfed]: the json in your attachment properties look a little wonky
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aaronpk https://media.aaronpk.com/2022/11/30140849-6276.png
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aaronpk i think they require "name" too
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[snarfed] I'll try that
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aaronpk try this https://media.aaronpk.com/2022/11/30140939-3874.png
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aaronpk tantek's bio looks like it's showing up
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[snarfed] wat
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[snarfed] not for me on https://indieweb.social/@tantek.com@tantek.com . is it doing client-specific caching?!
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aaronpk i see it on mastodon.social
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Loqi Tantek Çelik
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[snarfed] well that's semi good news then, even if the caching is frustrating
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[snarfed] aaronpk but you don't see his links yet, right?
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gRegor I see the bio, no links for tantek
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[mattl] I just looked him up on there for the first time. I see a bio and no links too
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Loqi [mattl]: tantek left you a message on 2020-02-12 at 6:25pm UTC: tomorrow is the 2 year anniversary of the closing of the W3C Social Web Working Group! https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg if you have any particular updates regarding SocialWG/IndieWeb specifications that you worked on or implemented, consider this a good time to post about
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[snarfed] thx
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gRegor A wild mattl appears! wb o/
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aaronpk [snarfed]: i'm still seeing the same JSON from fed.brid.gy
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[mattl] [gRegorLove] yeah, it’s been… a while.
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[snarfed] aaronpk yeah I just now deployed the fix
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[snarfed] and yay name fixed it, thank you
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Loqi 😃
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[snarfed] ok I can close that issue then
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aaronpk nice
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[snarfed] ugh links are rendering badly
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[snarfed] https://snarfed.org/mastodon-links.png
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[snarfed] ah nm it's still me 🤦‍♂️
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gRegor angelo, tracydurnell: I think it was you two at HWC I was talking with about Mastodon a couple weeks ago? Found the post I was looking for at the time:
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gRegor https://denise.dreamwidth.org/91757.html
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aaronpk heh, we're not the only ones who have much more recent editors' draft versions of specs than what is on w3.org https://w3c.github.io/webcrypto/
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aaronpk found via https://www.chromium.org/blink/webcrypto/ "The version on w3c.org is horribly out of date"