#dev 2022-12-29

2022-12-29 UTC
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> I enjoyed watching this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMWjol6xHJ0&ab_channel=Farcaster
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> It's more of a "these problems exist" rather than "here's how Farcaster solves them" but there should be more videos come out that answer the latter.
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> Why did RSS do so well with podcasts?
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[snarfed]2 enclosures?
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aaronpk tbh probably less of a technical reason and more that apple supported it and became the de-facto podcast directory and now everyone has to do whatever apple says for their podcast feeds
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[snarfed]2 yeah I guess the first "do so well" was the ecosystem initially growing, and then the second a day or so later when growth boomed and they went mainstream. Apple definitely in at least the latter
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[snarfed]2 er "decade or so later"
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[tw2113_Slack_] Unsure if this would go in #indieweb-chat or #indieweb-dev here, but I came across https://bringback.blog/ today
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gRegor I think that's on-topic for #indieweb actually. Nice to see Jean MacDonald on the list
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[tantek] capjamesg, RSS+enclosures was "good enough" and "simple enough" for folks to prototype and get a positive feedback loop of publishers & consuming apps working and enough "early adopter" / "power user" adoption to be the "obvious" choice of an ecosystem to support/supplant when Apple decided to get into podcasting
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[tantek] Apple supporting it, with devices that made it convenient (iPod) is what made podcasting as a whole "do so well", regardless of plumbing
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[tantek] RSS+enclosures gained enough of a first-mover advantage that the Atom equivalent never really took off, despite Apple adding support for Atom podcasts (apparently)
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[tantek] what is a podcast
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Loqi A podcast is an episodic series of audio and/or video posts that can be subscribed to and downloaded for offline listening/viewing https://indieweb.org/podcast
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[tantek] podcast << Apple technical guidelines for publishing a podcast feed (note, no mention of their [[Atom]] support) https://podcasters.apple.com/support/823-podcast-requirements
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Loqi ok, I added "Apple technical guidelines for publishing a podcast feed (note, no mention of their [[Atom]] support) https://podcasters.apple.com/support/823-podcast-requirements" to the "See Also" section of /podcast https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=85485&oldid=83968
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[tantek] podcast << Apple iTunes / Podcast apps do apparently support [[Atom]] feed podcasts. Example and recommendation to embed cover art in the actual MP3 file: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5124014/is-it-possible-to-add-itunesimage-to-an-atom-feed-with-enclosures
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Loqi ok, I added "Apple iTunes / Podcast apps do apparently support [[Atom]] feed podcasts. Example and recommendation to embed cover art in the actual MP3 file: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5124014/is-it-possible-to-add-itunesimage-to-an-atom-feed-with-enclosures" to the "See Also" section of /podcast https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=85486&oldid=85485
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[tantek] that being said, I tried web searching for: how do you publish a podcast in an "Atom feed", and found nearly nothing (see above for the one stackoverflow link) so it seems there is an opportunity to document that practice / how to on our wiki for better discoverability
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[tantek] does anyone here publish audio enclosures in their Atom feed?
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starrwulfe[m] Semi abandoned goblog for now; the hectic holidays are not giving me enough seat time to troubleshoot.... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/c38c565054aa3a25b24106ca82b1f77506d60a60>)
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starrwulfe[m] ActivityWeb on there is @j7@www.jlg.link
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starrwulfe[m] * ActivityWeb account to follow on there
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[tantek] is ActivityWeb the new name for Fediverse?
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starrwulfe[m] Nope
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starrwulfe[m] ActivityWeb is just a protocol within the Fediverse
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[tantek] link to protocol spec?
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[tantek] web searches for ActivityWeb don't return any protocol specifications
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[snarfed]2 I expect starrwulfe meant ActivityPub
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starrwulfe[m] I meant activitypub
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starrwulfe[m] 🤦🏾‍♂️
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starrwulfe[m] Told ya— hectic holidays
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barnaby isn’t activityweb what sandeep originally called his set of protocols, one of which turned into webmention?
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[tantek] not that I recall, nor does chat search
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barnaby https://github.com/converspace/activityweb-specification
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Loqi [preview] [converspace] activityweb-specification: ActivityWeb Specification
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starrwulfe[m] Part of the reason it’s hard for me to explain to laypeople is the easily convoluted jargon.
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starrwulfe[m] https://public.garden/notice/AQvqLDtOT1IvxqOs7M
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starrwulfe[m] I’d like to change the use of Fediverse to something more “official” sounding— I wrote here and will repost on my actual blog soon:
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Loqi [preview] [starrwulfe] It’s important to note:Mastodon =/= Fediverse;Fediverse == #Mastodon, #Pixelfed, #Write.as, #Micro.blog, #Pleroma, #Peertube, #Lemmy etc.There’s a whole breadth of components that plug into this ecosystem and each one has its own strengths and we...
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[tantek] whoa nice archeology barnaby++
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Loqi barnaby has 39 karma in this channel over the last year (62 in all channels)
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[tantek] that's worth a wiki page just so it shows up in future search results
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[tantek] what is ActivityWeb
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "ActivityWeb" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "ActivityWeb is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] ActivityWeb was an overall “specification for a personal publishing and distributed social platform where you own all your data” proposed by [[User:Sandeep.io|Sandeep Shetty]] in 2012 that built upon [[PubSubHubbub]], [[Activity Streams]], [https://github.com/converspace/activitypush-specification ActivityPush], and [https://github.com/converspace/activitydialog-specification ActivityDialog].
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Loqi ok
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Loqi [preview] [converspace] activitypush-specification: ActivityPush Specification
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[0x3b0b] I've seen at least a few articles talking about the difference between the Fediverse and the...Federation, I think?...mostly talking about Hubzilla and Friendica, in the context of "federation" being Diaspora's protocol, I think, and those two projects being able to communicate with both constellations. When I started this last round of investigation my Plan A was actually to pick one of those two projects to set up, and try to get
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[0x3b0b] microformats and webmentions working with it.
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[tantek] fascinating, ActivityPush (2012 era) sounds A LOT like a predecessor to ActivityPub, and even uses JSON-based API as well.
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[tantek] a totally unrecognized predecessor. hmmm...
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starrwulfe[m] 0x3b0b: sounds like what I did back in 2018– I wound up setting up
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starrwulfe[m] A Hubzilla hub since it was able to federate everything
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starrwulfe[m] And had early webmentions support as well
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aaronpk "crypto-free protocol" I assume that is in reference to actual cryptography and not cryptocurrency? 😂
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[tantek] lol yes and good either way
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[KevinMarks] Apple tried for a while to extend podcasts using m4a and m4v (with chapters and video playback, and by integrating authoring into iMovie and GarageBand), but were less able to steer it and didn't have the focus to keep it up.
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[0x3b0b] I also remember back when I first heard about pump.io, and then several years later was trying to describe it to someone at work and went to pull it up and misremembered the TLD as .it. Do not look that up. Especially not at work.
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[tantek] [snarfed] I'd be curious of your opinion of https://github.com/converspace/activitypush-specification (it's a very short read) and if it even vaguely resembles (either conceptually or actually) how ActivityPub works
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Loqi [preview] [converspace] activitypush-specification: ActivityPush Specification
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[KevinMarks] That looks like the more complicated version of webmention with a verb that we rejected
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barnaby IIRC it’s the direct predecessor to webmention
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[KevinMarks] It does sound like it, yes.
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[tantek] no it looks like much more than that
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[tantek] check out the API to retrieve specific activities
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starrwulfe[m] Yeah, I recall there being some references to it in Hubzilla development back in the day so it’s why I keep getting confused
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[snarfed]2 so ActivityPush has verb, and the endpoint serves activities as JSON
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[snarfed]2 but otherwise yeah it does feel closer to webmention than AP, if only due to the minimalism
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[KevinMarks] There was a whole bikeshedding argument about adding a "property" parameter to webmention that we eventually rejected https://github.com/w3c/webmention/issues/1
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starrwulfe[m] Wonder why this particular project died…
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Loqi [preview] [csarven] #1 Introduce the property parameter
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[tantek] starrwulfe[m], perhaps ahead of its time
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[tantek] also proposed in advance of (or without soon thereafter) prototyping, which is a key step to demonstrate something is worthy of attention / iteration
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barnaby sandeep had a really nice personal site with webmention comments implemented at sandeep.io, I think he just moved on to other things. it redirects to his other blog now
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[tantek] yes, and his prototyping of webmention on his own site is a key reason we have webmentions "as a thing" now
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[snarfed]2 sandeep++
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Loqi sandeep has 1 karma over the last year
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[tantek] sandeep++
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Loqi sandeep has 2 karma over the last year
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[tantek] barnaby, snarfed, if you want to document the specific concepts/APIs/tech in ActivityWeb or ActivityPush that look very much like direct predecessors to ActivityPub features, please free to add that (even just as prose) to /ActivityWeb and I’m happy to wiki-garden it
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[snarfed]2 honestly I don't see anything other than "verb" and "activity," which are more AS
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[snarfed]2 at least nothing that's more AP than eg webmention, OStatus, etc
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[tantek] [snarfed] really? this looked very much like AP inbox delivery: https://github.com/converspace/activitypush-specification#sender-notifies-receiver
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Loqi [preview] [converspace] activitypush-specification: ActivityPush Specification
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[tantek] as in notifies a *follower*, not a "mention"
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[snarfed]2 no that reads to me as the recipient of the like, not followers
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[snarfed]2 it says earlier in step #5: "Other users following Bob's website are notified about the activity (via PubSubHubbub)."
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[snarfed]2 also #1: "Alice's website aggregates posts from eveyone she follows (via PubSubHubbub)."
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[tantek] ah you're right, I missed that distinction