#dev 2023-01-12

2023-01-12 UTC
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[0x3b0b] Huh. It seems `microblog.pub` marks up replies with an unclassed anchor inside a `<p class="in-reply-to">` instead of putting `class="u-in-reply-to"` on the anchor. Time to compose another issue.
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[0x3b0b] Or maybe actually learn to use the send-email thing in git and submit a patch, but I think the dev wants an issue opened first
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> [tantek] don’t you mean “feel free to log it to /log accordingly” 😅
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[tantek] capjamesg, no because I was hoping for a considered edit, not just an append 😛
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> Can I get half an internet point for trying? 🤣
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starrwulfe[m] 0x3b0b: search the issue tracker first to see if it isn’t something already being worked on by someone else. If it is, PR citing that issue. (Bonus: no commit message needed because it’s there in the issue) If not, make an issue, then make a PR for same issue.
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starrwulfe[m] Source: I work for the faceless company that owns a large git repository…repository, and that’s how they make us do it complete with “this is the way” Mando references. 😉
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starrwulfe[m] For me it’s gospel now, although I have testy project owners who don’t appreciate my exhaustive texts in their diff notes but ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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[0x3b0b] Development takes place on sourcehut. No PRs, which I'm used to; only patches via git-send-email, which I'm not.
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[tantek] Going to point out that the folks quoting Mando "this is the way" don't realize it's satire, because after all, their rigid/inflexible "the way" belief system didn't prevent Mandalore from basically being wiped out and turned into a dwindling culture.
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[tantek] it's literally the opposite of "adapt or die"
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aaronpk they mentioned that in the show too
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aaronpk but not til like way into the season, so it had already taken hold as a cool sounding phrase
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starrwulfe[m] [tantek]: yep we underlings point that out every time so it’s kinda our inside joke when referring to corporate lemming behaviors
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[tantek] it's also very "don't question the cult"
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starrwulfe[m] [0x3b0b]: So that’s how they survived after SVN then.
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starrwulfe[m] I was wondering if they were still using that for source control or not.
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[KevinMarks] Am I being too simple here? https://xoxo.zone/@KevinMarks/109673693184152138
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Loqi [preview] [Kevin Marks] @librenews ActivityPub has a server to client API that no-one implements. The server to server API is more like WebSub, but without the fallback of feeds, so it's chattier and more fragile. Micropub is a post creation API. It's simple enough to map t...
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[KevinMarks] I realised that the Social Web Protocols document is a bit too generous in its AP tick boxes as it is crediting the client/server API with a bit too much.
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aaronpk to be fair that document was describing specs not implementations
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[KevinMarks] Yes, but it grouped the different AP specs because they had the same name, rather than clarifying which was solving which. We do have too many things called Pub and Sub.
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[KevinMarks] Especially now there's microblog.pub and micro.blog to keep straight
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aaronpk should i start a new one called dotblog.pub
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sknebel how much are .pub domains?
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sknebel ~42€ apparnetly
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[0x3b0b] .blog and .micro are also TLDs, although the latter is meant for use by micronations apparently...is .dot a thing yet?
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[KevinMarks] So we can have pub.micro now?
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[snarfed] and micro.pub
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[0x3b0b] I think to keep it from being taken down you might have to convince a micronation to register it...
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[tantek] Yeah the Social Web Protocols document needs a big reality-check update
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] you're not being too simple. That was a good accurate summary.
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[tantek] The current draft of that SWP doc is out of date enough to be misleading. I wouldn't link to it, it's more likely to confuse (with the W3C "brand" on it) than it is to actually encourage people down productive paths.
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[tantek] Maybe it's worth starting a rewrite of it
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[snarfed] does anyone use JF2 for anything any more, other than Microsub? https://indieweb.org/jf2
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GWG I use it internally.
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@Web3dentity https://www.namebase.io/domains/webchampion https://www.namebase.io/domains/webmention https://www.namebase.io/domains/webfact https://www.namebase.io/domains/webpercentage https://www.namebase.io/domains/webpost https://www.namebase.io/domains/webfood https://www.namebase.io/domains/webrip https://www.namebase.io/domains/webinternet https://www.namebase.io/domains/webeconomics https://www.namebase.io/domains/webstate #hns #Web3 #domainsforsale #domainnames (twitter.com/_/status/1613433417248702473)
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[aciccarello] This struggle seems indieweb relevant. I hadn't thought of how mastodon may degrade html.
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[aciccarello] https://github.com/hometown-fork/hometown/issues/1274
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Loqi [preview] [zseri] #1274 Allow optional Markdown and/or ReStructuredText interpolation
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Loqi Countdown set by [tantek] on 2023-01-08 at 10:02pm PST
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Loqi 7th anniversary of Webmention FPWD, 6th anniversary of Webmention REC. Congrats aaronpk! https://indieweb.org/timeline#January
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@first_issues Missing IndieAuth logo in Auth modal https://github.com/owncast/owncast/issues/2573 #github #Go #JavaScript #HTML #CSS #Shell #Earthly #Dockerfile (twitter.com/_/status/1613453572087349250)
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[tantek] [snarfed], update, it appears that for some posts, BridgyFed sending updates is working, and causes Mastodon views to be updated also.
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[tantek] Eg I updated my 100DaysofIndieWeb day 10 post to forward link to day 11, sent another webmention, and someone who had previously boosted day 10 showed the updated post.
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[tantek] I’ll keep gathering data points to see if I can figure out why some posts get updated and others don’t.
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[tantek] e.g. just rewebmentioned my day 9 and it failed to update in the context of [KevinMarks] Mastoreply https://xoxo.zone/@KevinMarks/109665366036600650
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Loqi [preview] [Kevin Marks] @tantek.com you typoed (ActivtyPub)-> in your diagrams, but you can edit them to fix it
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[tantek] Day 10 updated fine. Day 9 not. So weird.
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[manton] Fixing some things with Bridgy… Anyone happen to have an example brid.gy/comment/mastodon shim URL I can test with?
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[snarfed] [manton] https://brid.gy/comment/mastodon/@toddgrotenhuis@infosec.exchange/106820269734799188/106823639999423980
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[snarfed] you can also make one for any comment: https://brid.gy/about#source-urls
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[manton] Perfect, thanks!
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Loqi [preview] [Mark Gordon] @toddgrotenhuis Just found our (unopened) deck of Dutch Blitz. Will become schooled this weekend.And was sad to discover the creator of Shipwreck Arcana ships only to the US. But there are ways... 🤓 Thanks for the blog post.
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[manton] [snarfed] If a user had Bridgy disabled, I was getting a 400 error for those URLs for that account, FYI. Not sure if that is expected behavior or not. No big deal.
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[snarfed] yeah that's expected
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[manton] Cool. I’ve rolled out a fix for Bridgy Mastodon webmentions in Micro.blog. It gets a bit confusing when there are Mastodon posts coming in from feeds, webmentions, ActivityPub… But in theory it should all be tied together.
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[snarfed] manton++
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Loqi manton has 27 karma in this channel over the last year (37 in all channels)
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[snarfed] The glorious sprawl of the open web 😎
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cambridgeport90[ Is it glorious, or is it the wild west? LOL
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[manton] Both! 🙂
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[snarfed] [tantek] just FYI, oddly BF is still getting 500s from your site sometimes. got one for https://tantek.com/2023/011/t1/indieweb-evolving-at-mention at 07:33:38 PT today
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Loqi [preview] [Tantek Çelik] One of the fun things about #IndieWeb notes & replies is that how we post is actively evolving! Like how should we @ someone? #socialMedia aliases (e.g. @Twitter) were obvious, with prior @-name usage on Flickr etc. Now, some have a domain, or an @...
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[snarfed] evidently it's reproducible
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[tantek] I'm wondering if there's some IP that I've blocked ages ago that Bridgy is somehow re-using
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[tantek] or is Bridgy always using the IP?
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[tantek] the same* IP
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[tantek] imagines a Bridgy cluster of lots of servers sending out requests
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[snarfed] Lol
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[snarfed] It's a substantial IP block. And it's mostly been fetching fine. So I doubt it's that
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[tantek] [snarfed] by "it's reproducible" do you mean a consistent % or from a specific server or ... ? because obviously at least *some* of the Bridgy requests of my posts e.g. that one you linked are working fine because people are seeing them on their Mastos
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[tantek] On another topic, all this active 100daysofindieweb posting has been nudging me very strongly to make iterative improvements in my "test in production" cassis.js and I'm thinking about doing a decent update to the "stable" version on GitHub
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[tantek] Any CASSIS users here that have any pet peeve requests / requirements that they‘d like to see in an updated stable release?
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[snarfed] [tantek] reproducible for a specific request, regardless of server. I wonder if it's the HTTP sig or related headers. I'll poke at it a bit
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[tantek] thank you!
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[tantek] !tell capjamesg do you have the link for when this was discussed in chat? https://github.com/tantek/cassis/issues/36 Also I have made some improvements (not committed) like recognizing Masto-post-like URLs, you might have seen some of them in my recent reply-contexts on my home page. Would you want that too?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [preview] [capjamesg] #36 Promote auto_url_summary into CASSIS core
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[tantek] also if anyone is using PHP8, I could use some help with https://github.com/tantek/cassis/issues/37 — like what exact context of lines do folks think PHP8 is getting a syntax error (note that PHP line numbers != cassis line numbers because lots of commented out portions for JS etc.) i.e. the expression quoted in the bug looks like JS code that should be commented out from PHP
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Loqi [preview] [gRegorLove] #37 Parse error with PHP 8
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[tantek] is anyone using cassis.js with npm?
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cambridgeport90[ How about on Wordpress? I wonder if that would give me some of the features that the Indieweb plugin currently lacks?
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cambridgeport90[ I want to eventually add them,but my PHP sucks.
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[snarfed] [tantek] doesn't repro locally, same request with same headers 200s. here's the 500 body if it helps. not a big deal, just fyi. https://snarfed.org/tantek-com-500.html
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[tantek] that looks like the same kind of 500 errors I get when my PHP posting/webmention sending code takes too long (still working on removing a bunch of sync-sending of webmentions)
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[tantek] aaronpk, did you see https://chaos.social/@janl/109677140991445140 ? It basically indexes everything that you interact with as a Mastodon *reader* which makes me wonder if this kind of "personal search" is a logical Microsub extension, something a Microsub server could the hard work of indexing, and then provide an API for the Microsub reader client to access.
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[snarfed] yup. many big traditional readers already do this
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[tantek] hence why it seems to make sense as a Microsub protocol addition
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[tantek] [snarfed] if a random site can detect that you’re logged into a *specific* Mastodon instance (my guess is searchtodon is has a list of instance domains they are checking) that seems like a bit of a privacy leak
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[snarfed] I still don't see _how_ it would do that though, even for a specific instance
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[snarfed] meh
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[tantek] could also be weaponized for per-instance-ui phishing attacks
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[tantek] there are timing attacks you can do to see if a browser has loaded a resource or not, and if you can find a specific resource that is indicative of a signed-in state on a specific site, well there you go
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[tantek] especially if you have a bunch of sites all running the same software
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[snarfed] suuuure but seems pretty unlikely
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aaronpk yeah I always imagined it would be part of a microsub server
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aaronpk TBD right now https://indieweb.org/Microsub-spec#Searching_for_Content
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[tantek] cool
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aaronpk what's this about detecting login state?
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[tantek] hmm, I was going to add Searchtodon as "Possible proof of use-case" to that but then realized that's actually in the middle of spec text thus inappropriate there. Then I was going to add it Microsub brainstorming but that's now in GitHub. So I looked and didn't find an GH issue for that TBD "Searching for Content".
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[snarfed] aaronpk log into any Mastodon instance, then load https://beta.searchtodon.social/ and tell us what it does
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aaronpk I am logged in to mastodon.social but i just see "Viewing mas.to public data" there
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[tantek] aaronpk, I figure it's better to let you create that Microsub brainstorming GH issue for that TBD https://indieweb.org/Microsub-spec#Searching_for_Content and then the rest of us can contribute there
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[snarfed] ohhhh then maybe I misinterpreted what it did
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[snarfed] yeah my bad, ignore me
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aaronpk there's no way it would be able to detect login state to arbitrary domains without coordinating on cross-domain stuff with the other site, that would be an advertising network's wet dream otherwise
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[snarfed] right
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[KevinMarks] If you're updating cassis autolink you could add the fragmention previewing I prototyped here https://www.kevinmarks.com/mentionquote.html
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Loqi [preview] Mentions as quotes 2015-05-22
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[tantek] oh gosh [KevinMarks] that is NOT a minor bug fix, that's a non-trivial new feature 🙂
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[KevinMarks] looks like the checkin is a bit messy, but it was a fairly small change https://github.com/kevinmarks/cassis-autolink-py/commit/aba9c2f1f4435f313daf35d509da410c704be29f#diff-02938626ad6e8594935[…]0264220f52eedda0b212R121
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[tantek] hmm, I feel like there's more there or a prior checkin like I don't see where "fragmentioned" is defined
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[tantek] also I'm curious what urllib.unquote_plus is doing
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[KevinMarks] turning % encoded text in the url fragment back into plaintext
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[KevinMarks] the _plus means decode '+' to space too
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[tantek] oh interesting. not sure I have code for that but I'm sure PHP has a function for it
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] I noticed that on /CASSIS that kylewm's repo is currently the reference for the Python implementation of auto_link. do you want to take that over?
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[tantek] this one: https://indieweb.org/CASSIS#auto_link
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[KevinMarks] I could do, it likely does need updating with newer versions from you, especially of the demon regex
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[tantek] yes that regex is one of things that has gotten a bunch of updates in the past couple of weeks
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[tantek] to better recognize @-@s
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[KevinMarks] That's a nice bit of yakshaving for me as I use it in unmung and mention-tech, but haven't updated either because of AppEngine/Python variants. Maybe starting with this would be a way in.
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[KevinMarks] happy to take it over, or move to the indieweb github if that makes more sense
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[tantek] it's not particularly indieweb-specific so I think keeping it local to you is fine for now
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[tantek] I mean similarly I don't see CASSIS as a whole as specific to indieweb
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ webmention to a profile page for general @t mention but a reply mention to specific post if that is the subject of the note (twitter.com/_/status/1613627371730440220)
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[KevinMarks] Use case for mastodon Indieauth https://neuromatch.social/@jonny/109677892115717208
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Loqi [preview] [Jonny] Does anyone use mastodon as an #SSO provider? Ideally we would like to allow members of our instance to use their masto account to log in to a #MediaWiki and #Loomio instance rather than having three accounts, but I have never tried doing SSO before ...
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gRegor [tantek], I'll take a fresh look at that cassis issue
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gRegor I think I encountered that in the dependencies for the this-week newsletter when I was working on grouping event wiki pages
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