#dev 2023-02-02
2023-02-02 UTC
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[KevinMarks] The image preview code can use etag/if modified since to decide when to regenerate and skip on a 304.
# [KevinMarks] Anything you're generating from urls should do the etag/if modified since dance.
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@liztai ↩️ PS: I'm trying to see how webmentions work which is why I included the link to my linkblog on this article, which, btw is pretty fascinating. (twitter.com/_/status/1620987172634431488)
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@TwitterDev Starting February 9, we will no longer support free access to the Twitter API, both v2 and v1.1. A paid basic tier will be available instead 🧵 (twitter.com/_/status/1621026986784337922)
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pmlnr I wonder what they're going to do when barely anyone pays up.
# [KevinMarks] So, for apps that use twitter for account management, what could we do as a drop in replacement?
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# pmlnr Why would we do that? We should be part of the f* no response to that move.
# pmlnr > Unless maybe we chip in to fund Bridgy for a paid Twitter dev account.
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[tantek] Because lots of folks in the community depend on it and don't have the time/resources to "turn on a dime" with that kind of disruption, and it wouldn't be an unreasonable use of OpenCollective funds to do so. Better to fund just one such twitter dev account than spread the burden around to everyone.
# pmlnr The response should involve not paying them at all imo
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[jamietanna] I assume that's for new apps, right? If it's existing stuff that's _wild_
# [KevinMarks] Presumably they are working out how to email or DM all API users right now
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# [KevinMarks] so how do I find the apps I have twitter API keys for? their developer portal is all brochureware now
# [KevinMarks] ah, its at https://developer.twitter.com/en/apps which is not linked anywhere in the nav
# [KevinMarks] found my oldest twitter app https://web.archive.org/web/20100206100634/http://www.amatwit.com/
# IWDiscordRelay <jacky#7226> Why continue to validate Elon's trade though with our donations? That doesn't seem to be good outside of wanting to cling to Twitter for reach/access
# IWDiscordRelay <jacky#7226> That'd also make Bridgy a target indirectly if it's allowing people to subvert the paid tier
# IWDiscordRelay <jacky#7226> I agree with pmlnr on just not doing it. It feels empty to be like "let's go" but also paying to stay
# aynish 💯
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# [jamietanna] +1 although I'd still like to be able to get webmentions back to my site, interact with posts of people who've moved away, and have access to Twitter feeds through Granary, I'd not be likely wanting to pay for it. Paying for Bridgy Fed maybe but not plain Bridgy for Twitter
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starrwulfe[m] Can twitter Bridgy move to the browser extensions like Instagram and Facebook at that point?
# starrwulfe[m] I keep a headless browser window open and running in Docker on my NAS for this reason actually.
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jeremycherfas I have only two, one of which is to Syndicate from WithKnown. If I don't pay for access, I will not be able to POSSE from there. So, maybe I won't.
# starrwulfe[m] It’s throwing a jackhammer at a problem that needs a scalpel but I know no other way
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[aciccarello] I saw an article that the existing paid API access starts at $99/mo
# [aciccarello] I can/can't believe they are closing the old api before the pricing has been announced.
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "song.link" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "song.link is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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@theshawe ↩️ go deeper on what a multiplayer internet means to @browsercompany
hope your team is looking at webmentions via @w3c
re: leaving comments on sites.
i enjoyed hearing you just riff with your thoughts and journey with other mentors and people, so more of that!! (twitter.com/_/status/1621251041575534593)
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# benatkin https://apis.guru/add-api/ - another place to add an API now that ProgrammableWeb is shut down
# arghc Just getting started. h-entry says "used to mark-up any other episodic or time series based content." but also for your homepage. Is there some other markup for static pages?
# arghc Also, while looking at Types of Posts, it seems that the indieweb is reproducing semantic web schemas, is there no way to piggyback on/cooperate with that existing work?
# arghc my static pages tend to be how-tos and galleries with the occasional ... essay? thrown in. Back in my Drupal days I'd just throw them all open to comments which type of conversation/consumption one hopes indieweb promotes
# arghc re: schemas, pre-xmas I was in the midst of making a jekyll theme that integrated various schemas (using RDFa Lite) and now that I'm getting back into it (or jumping ship to 11ty, haven't decided 8-), and having learned about the indieweb, I dread adding microformats and yet more markup to everything...
# [snarfed] definitely understood, that's why we try to take a light touch and only mark up for consuming use cases. we also encourage people to start by asking, what's the next thing you want your site to do, and just do that, instead of trying to implement all the possible plumbing just because it's there
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# arghc I guess I'm just trying to understand post types and being a dinosaur in not believing that blog posts are the basic thing vs web pages?
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aaronpk the whole indieweb post type discussion is more about defining what you want someone else to do with your content. e.g. if you post a reply to someone and that post has a name, we'd call it an article/blog post and expect it to be displayed a certain way, vs posting a like and expecting it to be displayed differently
# Loqi Post Type Discovery specifies an algorithm for consuming code to determine the type of a post by its content properties and their values rather than an explicit “post type” property, thus better matched to modern post creation UIs that allow combining text, media, etc in a variety of ways without burdening users with any notion of what kind of post they are creating https://indieweb.org/PTD
# arghc thanks, gRegor, that's what I needed to hear! I was getting hung up on the description in h-entry that says it's time based content.
# [KevinMarks] We try to reuse the same properties as much as possible - name, summary, content, author, published date. Schema tends to build a big class inheritance structure, we try to minimise properties to useful ones for consumers, and avoid too much abstraction.
# Loqi Indiepaper is a "read later" service, in the spirit of Instapaper, for the IndieWeb https://indieweb.org/Indiepaper
# Loqi Read later is an indication on (or relating to) a website that one wants to save the URL to come back and read the content at a future time https://indieweb.org/read_later
# [jamietanna] I notice in https://fedifinder.glitch.me/# there's the ability to "follow" triggering a call to ie https://www.jvt.me/authorize_interaction?uri=https://mastodon.social/@ohhelloana - do we know if that's a url that we could have Bridgy Fed expose and therefore more easily link in with the follow UI?
# [jamietanna] I guess it's probably lower priority given the Glitch Twitter app will likely be lost next week
# [jamietanna] There's also on 👆 a way to import a csv of followings, it looks fairly straightforward, not sure if it's one we can add to BF?
# [jamietanna] And last thought from me is whether anyone's looked at doing a feed-per-person from BF? I'm trying to create a Microsub channel per person to keep in touch with people rather than seeing all the posts and maybe losing content from people
# [jamietanna] And yes I can absolutely create issues, just thought I'd drop thoughts here to see first
# [jamietanna] Yes, it looks like it is a remote follow
# [jamietanna] Interesting, is that usable with granary.io or do I need to self host something?
# [KevinMarks] @benatkin I was thinking about memex like ideas recently https://www.kevinmarks.com/memex.html commonplace books are a similar idea
# [snarfed] and [tantek] documented Bridgy Fed's remote follow support a bit in https://indieweb.org/Bridgy_Fed#How_to_add_a_follow_form , feel free to see if you can redirect that /authorize_interaction path
# [jamietanna] Hmm, got an example of how to get it working on granary.io? I think the times I've tried it in the past the `Mastodon` box doesn't seem to like the URLs I give it
# [jamietanna] Oh gotcha, that gives a single post, but not the feed as far as I can tell?
# [snarfed] ah no, true, those just give you the profile. eg GET https://granary.io/url?input=as2&output=as1&url=https%3A%2F%2Findieweb.social%2F%40snarfed
# [jamietanna] Yeah I was hoping to get full feeds, assuming that BF was needed so it can get all posts sent to it as it would already be following and receiving it
# [jamietanna] All good! Feature request it is 😁
# [KevinMarks] You could do it with the rss feed from mastodon via granary.io
# [KevinMarks] Though that is less rich than the h-feed was
# [snarfed] aha AP outbox also works, eg https://granary.io/url?input=as2&output=atom&url=https://indieweb.social/users/tchambers/outbox%3Fpage%3Dtrue
# [jamietanna] I'm on mobile but can't seem to see that work ie https://monocle.p3k.io/preview?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgranary.io%2Furl%3Finput%3Das2%26output%3Datom%26url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Findieweb.social%2Fusers%2Ftchambers%2Foutbox%253Fpage%253Dtrue
# [KevinMarks] Can we add mf2 to Akkoma like we used to have in mastodon?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Akkoma" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Akkoma is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "GoToSocial" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "GoToSocial is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# [jamietanna] Ah OK, I can raise an issue for it but think I may have to leave it for someone with more AP experience 🤕
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Seirdy_ GoToSocial is an ActivityPub server written Go. It provides a lightweight, customizable, and safety-focused entryway into the Fediverse. https://gotosocial.org/
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# [KevinMarks] So that is not a good project to propose microformats to as they oppose being on the web?
# [KevinMarks] Public replies rendered would work. Though I have seen some pushback on public post scraping too. (the twitter thing where you are blocked but can read the post on the web is either a precedent or a loophole depending on who is talking about it )
# [KevinMarks] So the microformats webpage-as-api model is not a good fit for that mindset.
# [KevinMarks] Right. It's danah's old user story of "publish this to everyone in the world except my parents" - very hard in practice.
# [KevinMarks] Both fair points, but the kind of pushback that we need to be ready for.
# Seirdy_ yeah, i currently use mf and/or bridgy with webmentions to show replies to my posts on my site, but i don't think people give enough thought to deletion. i've resorted to regularly running a broken link checker; when a link breaks for a webmention, i contact the orig author and ask if they have a preference regarding honoring deletions. if they don't reply within a day or two, i remove the response from the site and then delete it from
# [KevinMarks] This is where tombstoning can help. If sites support edit but not delete, you first send an edit to [deleted], then send a delete.
# [snarfed] doing that in Bridgy ("webmention-deletes") would require polling all silos for every response ever backfed, currently 2.5m and counting 😐 https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/907#issuecomment-570738356
# [KevinMarks] If sites are sending their own Webmentions and WebSub updates it is doable, but not with polling bridges
# [KevinMarks] Plus someone can use it to make politwoops https://projects.propublica.org/politwoops/
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capjamesg I love this: https://git.sr.ht/~emersion/chathistorysync
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "POSSE scheduling" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "POSSE scheduling is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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# Loqi scheduling in the context of the indieweb, refers to the feature of setting a specific time for a post to be published in the future https://indieweb.org/scheduled
# Seirdy_ I just run `make deploy && toot post "$(cat /path/to/post.md)" && sh post-publish-hooks.sh`. If I wanna schedule I use the `at(1)` command.
# [KevinMarks] I just had a thought. Given that Mastodon does extension based conneg (add .rss or .json to get a structured version) could we pitch a .html to get the h-feed/h-entry microformats back
# Seirdy_ https://github.com/scrapinghub/extruct pandoc for RDF-like structured data.
# [KevinMarks] Granary and unmung kind of do that, but formalising it might be an idea.
# [KevinMarks] RDF-like is asking for trouble a bit. I'd go with semantic or meaningful