#dev 2023-03-09

2023-03-09 UTC
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GWG Question for Discussion: Should we schedule a pop-up to discuss the possibility of updating the Living Standard for Micropub to include some of the stable extensions? Making them official as noted in the extensions page and adding them to an updated spec. Example being slug and status?
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[jamietanna] Has anyone else noticed Bridgy Fed not Webmentioning when folks mention you? At least the last week I've been missing replies ie https://hachyderm.io/@byjp/109990940244547039
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[jamietanna] GWG yes please, or at least creating a spec for extensions :)
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[jamietanna] Re BF WM https://fed.brid.gy/log?start_time=1678328560&key=https://hachyderm.io/users/byjp/statuses/109990940244547039/activity&module= shows that webmention.io rejected with `no_link_found` 🤔
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[jamietanna] https://php.microformats.io/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffed.brid.gy%2Frender%3Fid%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fhachyderm.io%252Fusers%252Fbyjp%252Fstatuses%252F109990940244547039%252Factivity shows that there is an `in-reply-to` that looks right 🤔
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Loqi [preview] @www.jvt.me this can be a security risk, which is why many APIs don’t have it — if there’s a successful XSS attack, then an attacker can find out which account they have control of 😔
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capjamesg Everyone, feel free to chime in here: https://github.com/bluesky-social/atproto/issues/646
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Loqi [preview] [capjamesg] #646 Add support for authentication with IndieAuth
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capjamesg I have just sent arXiv an email telling them about Webmentions + how they might be helpful re: their Trackback feature.
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GWG [jamietanna]: How do you think it could work?
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[jamietanna] The standardisation? I would see similar to the current spec, but focus on all the areas that an extension could interact with, so you can read the Micropub spec then one of the extensions' specs and be able to understand everywhere it affects
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[KevinMarks] Are arXIv integrating the html version they trialled last year?
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aaronpk capjamesg: I would leave RelMeAuth out of the discussion on that issue tbh
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aaronpk Also I'm not sure what atproto could actually do with IndieAuth, since they don't really have anything to do with the domain other than a DNS record. It's not like a CMS where the CMS could actually be the IndieAuth provider
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[snarfed] Sounds like the request is, once you've switched your handle to a domain, let you log into your PDS with indieauth for that domain
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aaronpk If anything they need to support OAuth directly because they want to enable logging in to atproto accounts in third party apps. But that ends up looking slightly different than IndieAuth I think? Maybe there's some ideas they could take from it for their OAuth implementation tho
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aaronpk i guess there's two parts to it
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aaronpk yea maybe what [snarfed] said is the right first step
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[snarfed] Yeah they've already had to warn people about entering their passwords into third party clients like https://bsky.syui.cf/signin , whee
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aaronpk heh
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aaronpk yeah they need some sort of OAuth for sure
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aaronpk but yeah I suppose now that my handle is my domain, I shouldn't need a password at their server at all
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aaronpk But how I log in to my PDS is different than how third party clients get access to my PDS, which is the two parts I referred to earlier
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aaronpk so I guess I can add this context to the thread
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[snarfed] Right
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aaronpk ok here we go, not what i was planning on doing this morning but I guess i should chime in on this
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aaronpk wtf is the difference between "signin" and "login" here?? https://bsky.syui.cf/
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aaronpk do they mean "sign up" as in create an account?
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[snarfed] iirc the other early one I saw was https://blue.amazingca.dev/login/
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[tantek] capjamesg++ for requesting IndieAuth support in BlueSky! Now can you make the same request for Mastodon? https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues (e.g. build on their rel-me support to allow signing-in with a domain you've rel-me verified)
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Loqi capjamesg has 24 karma in this channel over the last year (82 in all channels)
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[tantek] aaronpk, OAuth for client apps is something they (BS) need but it's not something that particularly helps users be more "IndieWeb". If you want to file a separate issue for that as a BS user that makes sense but I think it would only confuse the IndieAuth request to include it in capjamesg's issue (which is more about being IndieWeb Friendly)
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aaronpk the thing is, OAuth for client apps runs into the same problems that IndieAuth solves too
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aaronpk i'm gonna write up a blog post about OAuth/IndieAuth in bluesky and link to it from that issue, and maybe open a new issue for OAuth support too that references it
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aaronpk i'm half done with the post now
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aaronpk but, i'm about to dive in to a 3 hour workshop about OAuth right now so it will have to wait :)
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[tantek] thinking about it from "runs into the same problems" perspective I think is a methodological flaw, similar to "plumbing first" methodologies. I'm going to keep pushing back to focusing on what problems is it solving for the user, rather than "what common code can we share".
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aaronpk that is exactly my point actually
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aaronpk i'm not even going to get into code or protocols in this blog post
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[tantek] 👍
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[jacky] but aaronpk, if you don't post code, how can people prove it works? /s
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aaronpk heh
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[jacky] https://9to5mac.com/2023/03/08/ivory-create-mastodon-account now this is something I'd want to kinda see for readers (if not explicitly making an account, opting to allow for 'anon' content to be published maybe using something like comment.parade or some sort of third party service that one can then "move" to their own site/service of choice)
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[jacky] no idea on _how_ to do that off the top of my head but that'd knock the door to get in a lot
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[tantek] Didn't one of aaronpk's Micropub apps do that for a while? Like it let you locally create posts (web storage?) until you auth'd to a Micropub server?
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[jacky] oh that's an easier approach! I have no idea tho
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[tantek] I feel that's part of a larger user-centric "try first" dev philosophy
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[tantek] related: offline first
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[tantek] what is local first
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Loqi local first is a UX design method for installed applications (including webapps with service workers) that enables the user to make use of some or preferably all of their features without requiring any non-local (like network) interactions or connections, typically to at least view, create, edit, and save content which may at a later time be published to the web or synchronized to another device perhaps across a network https://indieweb.org/local_first
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IWDiscordRelay <j​acky#7226> [jamietanna]'s point about a spec for extensions is interesting (did you mean like having a spec per extension or something else?)
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[jamietanna] I'm considering either a single-page spec with multiple sections, or a page per extension
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IWDiscordRelay <j​acky#7226> I think the page-per-extension would help b/c examples and notes could be added more easily
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IWDiscordRelay <j​acky#7226> versus having a _massive_ page
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[tantek] Yes, page per extension please, that would be a great start
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[tantek] what are micropub extensions
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/Micropub-extensions
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[tantek] heh
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[tantek] ^ then that page can have summaries with a {{main|page-name-of-extension-here}} at the top of each extension section
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[tantek] jamietanna, I made some minor updates to ^ — hopefully that helps
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[jamietanna] Sounds like a plan
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> I'll file that Issue w/ Mastodon.
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GWG Should any extensions be in Core Micropub?
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capjamesg Big updates coming to IndieWeb Utils: https://github.com/capjamesg/indieweb-utils/pull/94
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capjamesg [tantek] I got my Salmention parsing logic as I wanted it.
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capjamesg I have another thing to add, but what I have now does what I want.
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capjamesg Displaying Salmentions is for another day, because I'll have to use this code in my Webmention endpoint (that isn't actively running).
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[tantek] yes, displaying and parsing are separate things so that's good!
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GWG I think I'll write up a pop-up Micropub proposal.
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[jamietanna] Sounds good GWG
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