#dev 2023-05-22

2023-05-22 UTC
gRegorLove_, geoffo, [tw2113_Slack_], Soni, IWSlackGateway, bterry1, angelo_, [chrisbergr] and eitilt joined the channel
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rubenwardy looks like brid.gy disconnected from mastodon again
Loqi__, [jacky], holiday_medley and [snarfed] joined the channel
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[snarfed] hmm, for your account? looking
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[snarfed] https://brid.gy/mastodon/@rubenwardy@fosstodon.org looks fine...?
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rubenwardy I had to reconnect with Mastodon OAuth again
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[snarfed] ah
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[snarfed] Bridgy disables accounts when it gets a 401 or 403 back from the silo API, at least in situations when that generally indicates that the user revoked Bridgy's access from inside the silo
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[snarfed] that's not always perfectly reliable though. I'll look more
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rubenwardy guess that also happens when the silo is experiencing issues?
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[snarfed] hopefully not 401 or 403
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rubenwardy cloudflare returns 403 when it limits connections
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[snarfed] yeah and that should be 429 or something else
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[snarfed] but if that's what's happening I can adapt
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[snarfed] wow yeah looks like fosstodon was returning 403 to API requests with HTML with some kind of user-facing CAPTCHA
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[snarfed] not great
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rubenwardy yeah that will be cloudflar
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[snarfed] unfortunate. ok then
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rubenwardy maybe it's been fixed now?
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rubenwardy they shouldn't be expecting API users to fill a captcha, maybe they accidentally applied it to the api as well
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[snarfed] but if it's cloudflare, it'll be unrelated to mastodon API vs UI
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[snarfed] aaronpk have you noticed an uptick in incoming AP traffic due to the ongoing crypto spam wave? mastodon.social alone went from ~2qps to ~8qps for BF
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aaronpk oh huh i haven't checked
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aaronpk no not really https://media.aaronpk.com/2023/05/22070731-1707.png
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aaronpk that's total messages not just mastodon.social
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aaronpk mastodon.social has been dropping steadily https://media.aaronpk.com/2023/05/22071428-8054.png
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[schmarty] aaronpk: i kicked up a couple of prs and an issue on representative-h-card-php over the weekend. hopefully quick stuff to review if you have a moment to spare sometime soon!
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aaronpk oh interesting
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[schmarty] oop shoulda linked https://github.com/indieweb/representative-h-card-php
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aaronpk wow that's an old library
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aaronpk ok merged
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aaronpk before we get too many more authors, how do you feel about dual licensing this MIT? so far you and I are the only committers
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aaronpk https://github.com/indieweb/representative-h-card-php/issues/1
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[schmarty] totally good with that!
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[schmarty] if you need a linkable statement...
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[schmarty] i agree to dual license my contributions to indieweb/representative-h-card-php as Apache/MIT
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aaronpk 👍
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[schmarty] are these updated bits and license enough to cut a 0.1.3? i'm also not sure if we should try and tackle https://github.com/indieweb/representative-h-card-php/issues/4 this week. the proposed fix ought to be quick as long as folks agree it's a reasonable proposal!
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aaronpk yeah i think that's fine for a minor release
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[schmarty] oops i shouldn't have asked two questions in one message. would you be okay with me PR-ing the `!empty` change for query and fragment prior to a new minor release?
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aaronpk ah yeah sure
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[schmarty] thanks! i've got a meeting in a moment but will get that up this afternoon!
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[schmarty] aaronpk gRegor: okay, `!empty` PR is up for review please and thank you! https://github.com/indieweb/representative-h-card-php/pull/6
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Loqi [preview] [martymcguire] #6 build_url: treat empty fragment/query as absent
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[tantek] Who was talking about building poll previews? Was that capjamesg, for mf2.link?
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[tantek] poll << plain text design / equivalent: see what [[Mastodon]] does in their [[link-preview]], e.g. https://mstdn.social/@feditips/110407908649128257
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Loqi ok, I added "plain text design / equivalent: see what [[Mastodon]] does in their [[link-preview]], e.g. https://mstdn.social/@feditips/110407908649128257" to the "See Also" section of /poll https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=87942&oldid=86418
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> That was me [tantek].
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> https://mf2.link/mastodon?url= https://mstdn.social/@feditips/110407908649128257
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> Argh!
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> https://mf2.link/mastodon?url=https://mstdn.social/@feditips/110407908649128257
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Loqi [preview] [Fedi.Tips] How do you access the Fediverse? :fediverse: If you use more than one method, choose the one you use the most.
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> I don’t have poll markup in the preview. Should I?
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[tantek] Always start with the content first, markup second
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[tantek] Oh interesting, the plain text in Slack preview didn't go thru to the wiki edit. I'll add it manually
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> The content is there.
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> I mean the plain text markup.
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IWDiscordRelay <c​apjamesg#4492> The [ ]
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[tantek] The [ ] *is* the content I'm talking about
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[tantek] You have to see it in Slack (for the moment) to see what I'm talking about
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[tantek] I'll add a text equivalent to the page so it's more obvious
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[tantek] capjamesg, take a look: https://indieweb.org/poll#Mastodon
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capjamesg I saw it. I called it "markup" because it isn't the original text.
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capjamesg I have the poll. I don't have the [].
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[tantek] it's not markup
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[tantek] it's visual content
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[tantek] it's the plain text version
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[tantek] just like "alt" text
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[tantek] what is plain text design
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Loqi Text-first design refers to the practice of designing information and UIs so they are readable/usable/actionable at least as basic plain text https://indieweb.org/plain_text_design
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capjamesg ++
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capjamesg Oh, my copy of the Chicago Manual of Style arrived today [tantek].
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[tantek] ooh enjoy!
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[tantek] that's on topic for #indieweb 🙂
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[tantek] since it's about content
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capjamesg Yes!
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[tantek] speaking of which, brackets in visible text are *punctuation*, not markup. on topic for CMoS
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[schmarty] what is CMoS?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "CMoS" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "CMoS is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[schmarty] ah, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CMoS got me there.
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[tantek] 😄
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[tantek] [schmarty] http://enwp.org/ is your typable URL prefix friend
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[schmarty] who is http://enwp.org
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[schmarty] 😏
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[schmarty] (srsly who runs http://enwp.org)
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[tantek] checking...
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[schmarty] i did a `whois` and it's all redacted. this is just out of curiosity. pragmatically i like the reduced typing _very much_
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[tantek] ah, good for typing, maybe not permalinks
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capjamesg What is enwp.org?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "enwp.org" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "enwp.org is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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capjamesg Oh, English Wikipedia?
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[tantek] yeah it's a convenient way to "command line" go wikipedia for a page
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[tantek] odd, Ascio is a "ICANN accredited domain registrar" so no idea who actually owns the domain. also different from the whois for wikipedia/wikimedia so who knows
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[snarfed] evidently Thomas Wang, who's offered to give it to wikimedia foundation. https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Domains , https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T32861
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[tantek] good sleuthing [snarfed] and nice to know people are being nice
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[tantek] wow continued in https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T332220
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[tantek] oof that sounds like the kind of debate I'd rather nope out of. a whole of practical small & simple vs. but what about the grander theoretical concerns type stuff. nope nope nope
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[tantek] so many decision-making/debating/argument anti-patterns/fallacies could be extracted from those two phabricator threads. I'm a bit surprised folks aren't citing fallacies on Wikipedia itself in the comments
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[snarfed] re BF, [tantek] yeah basically adding more AP => wm. BF already does much of that already, I think this would mostly just extend it to sites that haven't explicitly signed up
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[tantek] BridgyFed++ Webmention++
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Loqi Webmention has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (2 in all channels)
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Loqi BridgyFed has 6 karma in this channel over the last year (10 in all channels)
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capjamesg [tantek] mf2.link/mastodon?url=https://mstdn.social/@feditips/110407908649128257 now has the preview [].
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[tantek] hmm, wonder why that didn't auto-link in Slack
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[tantek] do we need a text equivalent for the <progress> element?
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capjamesg mf2.link and bsky.link now have rel=canonical.
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[tantek] (separately from the [ ] issue)
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[tantek] wondering if a plain text summary would be a good way to express this in a mf2-friendly way (rather than metastuffs)
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[tantek] as in p-summary property
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capjamesg PRs are welcome :)
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[tantek] figured I'd ask as a matter of discussion first 🙂
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capjamesg Yeah.
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capjamesg You mean in the post itself?
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capjamesg Or a hidden p-summary?
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[tantek] good question
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[tantek] duplicating it all in the meta tags feels like a waste
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[tantek] I'm wondering if it's possible to re-use that "plain text"
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capjamesg I don't think for presentation.
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capjamesg Presentation is a key consideration for the *.link sites.
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capjamesg Minimal is good, but I want something that would look good embedded on a piece of journalism.
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capjamesg That was poorly phrased. I mean, I want something that is closer to the original presentation and visually stimulating, while still minimal.
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[tantek] yes that makes sense
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[tantek] I mean for the link-preview use-case
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[tantek] which is different from embedding
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capjamesg ++
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capjamesg For solely link preview, yes.
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gRegor Slack is only using OGP for link previews, right?
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gRegor p-summary sounds good for Loqi's link previews though
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[KevinMarks] Also oEmbed https://www.kevinmarks.com/partialsilos.html
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Loqi [preview] Decaying Silos as dead malls 2018-01-20
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[tantek] right gRegor. I suppose I'm wondering if there's some hybrid way to use p-summary in the metaformats way while keeping e-content etc. in the visible content
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[schmarty] aaronpk: php8 empty fragment/query pr is up and gRegor has approved if you have a moment to merge: https://github.com/indieweb/representative-h-card-php/pull/6
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[schmarty] next up would be cutting a new release which is outside my experience!
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Loqi [preview] [martymcguire] #6 build_url: treat empty fragment/query as absent
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gRegor [tantek] Yeah, that would be nice. Sorta the reverse of https://indieweb.org/The-Open-Graph-protocol#How_to_set_description like "add property=og:description to the visible summary"
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[tantek] right
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gRegor Just tried `og:description` on some non-meta elements and FB didn't pick it up unfortunately.
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[tantek] unsurprising
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[tantek] maybe that's ok
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[tantek] I think this is the point — there's no actual RDF/SemWeb parsing going on for OGP. It's meta tag "parsing" at best
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[tantek] like meta description but with more "og:"
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gRegor Yep
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