#dev 2023-09-02

2023-09-02 UTC
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[KevinMarks] The suggestion to use <ul> and put the explicit numbering in the text so it gets copied was a good one
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[KevinMarks] If I copy yours the numbering is lost
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[KevinMarks] Standard: Right of an individual to request restriction of uses and disclosures.
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[KevinMarks] A covered entity must permit an individual to request that the covered entity restrict:
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[KevinMarks] Uses or disclosures of protected health information about the individual to carry out treatment, payment, or health care operations; and
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[KevinMarks] Disclosures permitted under § 164.510(b).
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[KevinMarks] Except as provided in paragraph (a)(1)(vi) of this section, a covered entity is not required to agree to a restriction.
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[KevinMarks] [...iii: if you do agree, you have to keep your promise, except in emergencies...]
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[KevinMarks] A covered entity must agree to the request of an individual to restrict disclosure of protected health information about the individual to a health plan if:
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[KevinMarks] The disclosure is for the purpose of carrying out payment or health care operations and is not otherwise required by law; and
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[KevinMarks] The protected health information pertains solely to a health care item or service for which the individual, or person other than the health plan on behalf of the individual, has paid the covered entity i
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[tantek] That's a weirdness of copy/pasting legacy behavior in browsers. I'm not convinced that's correct, and lots of folks want that fixed
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Zegnat [KevinMarks]: it depnds where you are copying to, or what Os you use, I think. I tested copy-pasting into Google Docs and it kept all the list numbers. Including the 6 after the skipped items. The only thing Google Docs did not keep were the specific list stylings (which were roman numerals vs latin characters) but you can just click the list and set the correct styling
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Zegnat [tantek]: I used @counter-style to add the parenthesis. This is nice because it can extend already existing list styles in the browser. So I just add parenthesis to the existing lower-roman, and done.
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Zegnat I actually did not know that shipped in browsers until I did this list! Not something I need to use a lot otherwise.
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[Murray] Zegnat++ that's very cool, I felt like it should be possible but hadn't found the time to give it a go. Out of interest, that lone `<p>` element, why not make it a `<li>` with a specific class? Is it to allow for the new `start` value on the subsequent `<ol>`?
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Loqi Zegnat has 3 karma in this channel over the last year (13 in all channels)
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[Murray] just realised you can use `value` for the same reason. I'm trying to think if there would be a way to actually make it clearer to non-visual users that we're arbitrarily skipping sections here, would be interested to play around with that. Maybe I'll have some time this weekend
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[davidmead] [Zegnat] [Murray] I spent way too much time into the night thinking about this 😉. It’s not about if an `<ol>` can present that, because what the original poster has isn’t a list. It’s 3 separate excerpts from document. The top part, and edited middle, and then lower part.
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[davidmead] If I used the authoring tool that produced (what I assume is a PDF) I’m sure I wouldn’t be able to replicate what they have as an example. A Word Processor would either not let you hide items 3-5, leaving a short snippet of just one of those points, or would have you go an and start force the renumbering if you deleted those lines. An Outliner would show lines 3-5 collapsed or again have you delete them.
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[davidmead] Zegnat++ for coding it up. I did too and used an `<li>` with a `class` so the whole thing is within a group of nested `<ol>` elements. Murray ++
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Loqi Zegnat has 4 karma in this channel over the last year (14 in all channels)
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[davidmead] Murray++
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Loqi Murray has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (4 in all channels)
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[davidmead] The uneven adoption of copy & paste that [KevinMarks] & [tantek] pointed out is hardly the W3C’s fault when specc’ing the `<ol>` tag
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[davidmead] I went went as far as looking into rules that courts have for presenting numbered documents. Employing CSS to have `<p>` display as `list-item` and using the same `::marker` pseudo attribute. Like I said I spent way to much time in that rabbit hole 😛
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[davidmead] I should publish it on my blog
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Zegnat [Murray]: I used a <p> for the items that were missed because this note by itself should not be part of the list IMO. It is not item number X of the ordered list. So I am treating it as two ordered lists with a p in between. And the second list just starts at the correct number.
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Zegnat [davidmead]: I might need to do a test of copy-pasting. I only did a quick test with Google Docs, and it worked there. (Except for the clipboard not communicating that it should have used 1/a/i/A as the styles.)
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[davidmead] [Zegnat] you can see my go at https://codepen.io/davidmead/pen/jOXMOvm. Copy & pasting into Pages returns ordered list, but loses the different `list-style-types` , and pasting into Textedit loses all the list formatting.
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[davidmead] But you hit the nail on the head with “It is not item number X of the ordered list”. The whole thing is 3 separate snippets 😉
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Zegnat Yeah, that is why I did not like using an <li> for it :D
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Zegnat Not at my dev machine right now. It would be interesting to see exactly what is stored in the clipboard w.r.t. the list. You should be able to check out the rich text clipboard via navigator.clipboard.read()
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Zegnat Still, even if the richtext is there, as you noticed with TextEdit, the application you are pasting too still needs to interpret it
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Zegnat I like that you went the counter route. I went back and forth on what would be easier. Overwriting ::marker with counters or specifying a custom list style. I ended up going with the latter, but the effect is obviously the same.
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[davidmead] Re-reading the article I feel Siderea seems more mad at the W3C not imbuing the spec with some preternatural sense to “know” that piece of text you’re pasting is from an ordered list of things _and_ that you want to retain its numbering outside of the original doc and when you remove pieces of what you just paste 🤣
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[davidmead] I am still in two minds to blog a reply or not
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[tantek] I think the Editing WG may be working on better specifying the HTML fragments that get copy/pasted in order to maintain information like that.
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[tantek] It's certainly not well specified today
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