#dev 2023-09-30

2023-09-30 UTC
nertzy, [jamietanna], IWSlackGateway, gerben, [tantek], [Jo] and [snarfed] joined the channel
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[snarfed] current status: looking into running my own DNS server 😭
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sknebel why? (the emoji makes me think its not just "for the fun of it" ;))
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[snarfed] god no
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[snarfed] I'm back to mapping fediverse handles (eg @user@server) to Bluesky domain handles on Bridgy Fed
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[snarfed] https://fed.brid.gy/docs#translate
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[snarfed] snarfed: so far I've been planning to translate them to user.server.bridge, but that takes two levels of wildcards, which SSL certs don't support, and Bluesky handle resolution over HTTP requires SSL, https://atproto.com/specs/handle#https-well-known-method
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[snarfed] ...which leaves DNS resolution, https://atproto.com/specs/handle#dns-txt-method , which is doable, but to make it relatively realtime and scalable, I'd probably have to run my own DNS server...?
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c​apjamesg That really doesn't sound fun.
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[snarfed] most big projects have at least some not-fun parts
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[snarfed] capjamesg didn't you get excited about learning DNS and building your own server a while back?
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c​apjamesg I did!
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c​apjamesg It ended in a Go program that is still technically running but isn't working.
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c​apjamesg https://github.com/capjamesg/dns-experiments/blob/main/dns.go
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c​apjamesg [edit] https://github.com/capjamesg/dns-experiments/blob/main/dns.go
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aaronpk I don't think it's too outrageous of an idea to run your own DNS server tbh. It's only not fun if you're running one that expects to act like a public DNS server. But this one sounds kind of fun
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[snarfed] right
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[snarfed] just, admin tax
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[snarfed] I'm leaning toward using something like route 53 or google cloud dns instead. will see
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[tantek] "Just" admintax 😭
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[snarfed] tradeoffs for admin tax for developers are different than for end users
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[snarfed] _some_ admin tax is more necessary and expected
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[snarfed] but stil yeah
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c​apjamesg How does Google DNS work?
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[tantek] capjamesg, do you mean 8.8.8.8?
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[tantek] re-asking a couple of questions from the meetup
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[tantek] does anyone here do protocol-relative image embedding?
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[tantek] and 2. does anyone here do protocol-relative auto-linking/embedding?
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[KevinMarks] For external images you mean?
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c​apjamesg [tantek] I meant the Google Cloud DNS [snarfed] mentioned earlier.
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] for both
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[KevinMarks] Same site images I link domain relative or current page relative. Protocol relative would be odd there
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[tantek] not odd at all. your URL design for different pages / images may vary differently over time
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[tantek] e.g. you might redo where you put posts and yet keep all your "big images" in a images directory or something
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sknebel just for a directoryyou dont need protocol relative, only domain relative
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[tantek] though I suppose you'd use domain/root relative for that "/"
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sknebel but if you had an images subdomain or something
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[tantek] yes
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sknebel then itd make sense if you served the site over multiple protocols too
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[tantek] subdomain for images.yourdomain for storage reasons is certainly a use-case
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sknebel (and I guess even if you dont it doesnt hurt to use protocol relative)
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[tantek] thanks sknebel, that helps clarify the use-cases
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[tantek] ok this is worth implementing in CASSIS then
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[KevinMarks] Right
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[KevinMarks] Multiple subdomains was more of a pre http2 thing to get browsers to fetch in parallel wasn't it?
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[snarfed] [capjamesg] https://cloud.google.com/dns . similar to Route 53 and others, basically programmatic DNS server as a service
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] multiple subdomains is also a ease-of-configuration & backend-portability thing if you're using say AWS for image storage for example while the rest of your site is on a webhost, but want to be able to change the image storage host without touching anything that embeds your images on your site
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[tantek] e.g. for some folks www.domain or blog.domain vs image.domain
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[tantek] or perhaps media.domain (for images, video, audio etc.)
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[tantek] I believe this technique is also used for "large static assets" in general to better handle spikes in traffic which may overwhelm "traditional" web hosts, or if you have a hybrid home/remote setup for your text content (e.g. server in your garage / on your home ISP) vs large static files (images, video, audio) that you don't want to upload through your home ISP
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[tantek] I know we've discussed these use-cases before, however I don't know where to find them (or document them?) on the wiki
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[tantek] what is a subdomain
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Loqi A subdomain typically refers to a domain with one more "name(dot)" component than that which someone actually has registered which is often seen indieweb sites with a family name domain like joel(dot)franusic(dot)com, or often on silos like matt(dot)wordpress(dot)com https://indieweb.org/subdomain
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[tantek] [KevinMarks], sknebel, I added this section, braindumping some of the above (and more) re: subdomain use-cases. Please review: https://indieweb.org/subdomain#Why
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sknebel "This has bad security properties since it is not the same origin as other things on your site. " - not sharing security context with other things is not per-se "bad", it could be exactly why you do it
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[KevinMarks] I think we need a reference to https://wiki.mozilla.org/Public_Suffix_List there
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[tantek] sknebel, yeah that should probably link to the large section on origins / security later on in that page
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] want to use the < < tool to at least get it on the page?
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[KevinMarks] subdomain << what counts as a top level domain is a bit tricky - see https://wiki.mozilla.org/Public_Suffix_List
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Loqi ok, I added "what counts as a top level domain is a bit tricky - see https://wiki.mozilla.org/Public_Suffix_List" to the "See Also" section of /subdomain https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=89461&oldid=89460
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[tantek] Hmm, this may be convincing me to avoid protocol relative URLs in my content: https://webhint.io/docs/user-guide/hints/hint-no-protocol-relative-urls/
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[tantek] and certainly not add code support for them
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[tantek] or generating them
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[tantek] yeah this may be worth documenting for others
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[tantek] what is a protocol relative URL
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "protocol relative URL" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "protocol relative URL is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] protocol relative URL is a URL on a page (hyperlink, image source or similar) that starts with "//" and re-uses the protocol of the page itself, typically re-using http: or https: from however the page was loaded, which used to be a common web development practice and is now generally discouraged for a various [[performance]] and [[security]] reasons. https://www.paulirish.com/2010/the-protocol-relative-url/ and
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[tantek] https://webhint.io/docs/user-guide/hints/hint-no-protocol-relative-urls/#why-is-this-important
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Loqi ok
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[jamietanna] twitter << https://www.jvt.me/posts/2023/09/30/tweetus-deletus/
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Loqi ok, I added "https://www.jvt.me/posts/2023/09/30/tweetus-deletus/" to the "See Also" section of /Twitter https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=89484&oldid=89344
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[aciccarello] I wonder if Twitter will rate limit something like that. I've been rate limited from unfollowing people on Instagram before.
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[jamietanna] Haven't seen anything yet, and it's been ~2500 tweets in a few hours
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[tantek] capjamesg, re: the space+time table in /cities, and our discussion in the chat and meetup earlier today, I'm now wondering if that HTML+CSS space+time chart/flow could be generated automatically from a list of h-events e.g. on a page
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[KevinMarks] Andy Herzfeld did a nice timeline generator at one point at Google.
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[KevinMarks] https://www.technologizer.com/2009/04/20/also-new-in-google-labs-google-news-timeline/
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[tantek] nah, that's a boring horizontal crawl of columns where vertical position across columns is meaningless. sorry but that's crap design
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] please compare that side by side to /cities and note how *every* dimension used in /cities is relevant and communicating information
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] also that "timeline generator" looks like a multicolumn generalized version what we created a politics.technorati back in the day (2005)
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[schmarty] jamietanna++
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Loqi jamietanna has 6 karma over the last year
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aaronpk Holy crap that Twitter phishing screen
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[tw2113] y'all still check X?
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[tw2113] pardon my language, but it's a shithow
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aaronpk No I read jamietanna's blog post
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[tw2113] ahh, that's legit
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[tw2113] but still, X is a shitshow
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aaronpk I wouldn't know, I haven't opened it in weeks
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[tw2113] don't trust random trending, you get some NSFW content