#dev 2023-11-13

2023-11-13 UTC
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Zegnat [KevinMarks]: WithKnown has brought that part into their source: https://github.com/idno/known/blob/dc639c1eab3e53670acd849715c5299cabd91917/IdnoPlugins/Checkin/external/stamen-maps/tile.stamen.js#L126-L148
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[aciccarello] Finally making progress with getting a micropub server running Indiekit. It feels so much more streamlined than my previous manual reply post process. 🎉
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[aciccarello] Now I need to figure out how to normalize some of the referenced microformats so I can have better reply contexts
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[sebsel] ↩️ psst: Zegnat will never see this message, because Threads on Slack are not synced to IRC (but now that i mentioned his name here he might open Slack?)
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sknebel lol
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sknebel they are
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[sebsel] ↩️ sending it also to the channel does not fix it, unfortunately. See here, your message isnt there:
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[sebsel] https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2023-11-13
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[KevinMarks] https://alpaca.gold/@Jeremiah/111402969211545059
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Zegnat sknebel: mmm, no, it does not seem to have made it
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Zegnat Or, mmm, [sebsel]’s messages made it, but jeremycherfas’ message did not?
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Zegnat Wrote a note in #indieweb-meta :)
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[jacky] Nice [aciccarello]!
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[tantek] HTML << https://html-first.com/ <blockquote>The main goal of HTML First is to substantially widen the pool of people who can work on web software codebases.</blockquote> quite aligned with IndieWeb [[principles]] and community values.
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Loqi ok, I added "https://html-first.com/ <blockquote>The main goal of HTML First is to substantially widen the pool of people who can work on web software codebases.</blockquote> quite aligned with IndieWeb [[principles]] and community values." to the "See Also" section of /HTML https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=90564&oldid=90422
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[tantek] also this seems cool for devs but I don't that it has IndieWeb specific relevance: https://monaspace.githubnext.com/
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superkuh "web software" not web sites. :|
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[tantek] what are projects?
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Loqi There are many projects you can use to get your site on the IndieWeb, improve your IndieWeb support, or browse for inspiration for your own project; please note, some development ability and familiarity with command line tools will likely be required for you to use and improve these projects https://indieweb.org/projects...
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[tantek] what is web software
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "web software" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "web software is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] web software is /projects
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Loqi ok
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sknebel lol at html-first. "Steer Clear of Build Steps" ... looking in their page source, sure, they've hand-typed " <svg><!-- SVG file not found: 'heroicons/icon-x.svg' --></svg>"
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sknebel because thats totally a thing a human wrote
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[aciccarello] Wow, every time I look at fonts it blows me away how complex they get.
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aaronpk woo! Overland was approved for beta testing on TestFlight
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aaronpk just added a link to the testflight beta here https://indieweb.org/Overland
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[KevinMarks] https://hachyderm.io/@hrefna/111404990726756042
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Loqi [preview] [Hrefna (DHC)] Ranting: I'm really growing to despise some of the features around how #ActivityPub interacts with #JsonLD, not because you "need to parse JSON-LD," but because of the JSON-LD worldview. For example, let's look at the `tag` item on the `Actor` object...
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Zegnat At least that part is correct in microformats: it is always an array, even when there is only 1 item
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Zegnat Otherwise it is actually somewhat the same in mf2. A property can be a list of string values, a list of objects, or a list of strings and objects.
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[tantek] Zegnat, there were lots of people that wanted to argue against that unfortunately, and try to keep making things "just" a string value for some properties 😕 It's been a long road to demonstrate why that doesn't work (but seems expedient in the short term)
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Zegnat If your consumer cannot handle the objects, they have a property value that should just be a string and can be defaulted to. I am not sure if there is a similar "plain" equivalent in the JSON-DLs
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Zegnat Yeah, I must prefer it to always be arrays. Hopefully makes it harder for consumers to do the wrong thing too, they always need to handle lists of things.
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[tantek] Yes, consuming code has to make a policy decision up front about what to do about potentially more than one value
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[snarfed] [tantek] any chance you know of any writeups of why "just a string" hurts long term?
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[snarfed] (I'm on board, but not sure I've ever seen it fully explained)
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[tantek] [snarfed] short version is that "just a string" causes lazy/expedient coding from devs which literally assumes just a string ("this property would never have more than one" 🙄 ) with zero type checking so when a property then doesn't have just a string eg is an array or object etc, their code breaks, often times years after they wrote their expedient code and moved on
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[snarfed] right, cardinality. always the same type is easier than multiple possible types. is there a similar rationale for "always array" even for properties that we might like to only ever be singular?
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[snarfed] just overall consistency?
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[tantek] Simpler design
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[tantek] Less information to know per vocab to handle
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[jacky] Posting with your voice soon to be possible? https://www.cursorless.org/
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[schmarty] I'm not much of a dictation person but you got me wondering if I could cobble together a Micropub post-by-voice with my current setup. And the answer seems to be yes! (iOS lets you run shortcuts with "Hey Siri").
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[tantek] ^ next IWS keynote demo
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[schmarty] ha! so i can break my website and flub the demo like 2019 😂
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[tantek] what is test in production?
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Loqi test in production is (AKA testing in production) deploying code changes to a web site or service typically visible to the public as part of checking to see if the code changes function as expected, and is practiced by some IndieWeb creators especially with their own projects as a form of eating their own cooking, often before publishing code changes to an open source repository https://indieweb.org/test_in_production
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[tantek] what is test in keynote?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "test in keynote" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "test in keynote is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[schmarty] 🙈
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[tantek] yup, need that with IndieWeb Examples
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[schmarty] nooooooooo
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[tantek] of course that would need an IWC/IWS with keynotes 👀 #indieweb-meta
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