#dev 2024-01-04
2024-01-04 UTC
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[tantek] !tell [snarfed] added an attempt at summarizing what you said here about ReST: https://indieweb.org/reStructuredText#Ryan_Barrett — still not sure how you're using it (for what user visible purpose) or on which site in particular, could you edit and add that? Thanks!
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# [tantek] !tell [chrisaldrich] are you still running your WordPress with the Refback plugin per https://indieweb.org/refback#Chris_Aldrich or have you dropped it since it and the plugin it depends on are no longer maintained?
# [tantek] !tell GWG have you maintained / kept up to date the Refback plugin for WordPress and are you still running it on your site? https://indieweb.org/Refback_for_WordPress
# [tantek] [snarfed]++ thanks for the BridgyFed fix! It worked! My response showed up thread in reply to Michelle's post: https://mastodon.social/@tmichellemoore/111689038439342085
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capjamesg sknebel Can you say more?
# capjamesg I think the idea is that Tantek could have a service on his site that caches the results for a day, after which point the cache expires and he would go to get another sparkline.
# capjamesg Is that possible with a web server?
# capjamesg Thinking about the simplest implementation.
# capjamesg I have cache.jamesg.blog. I can somehow add a file to it, linked to a URL.
# capjamesg Oooh, PHP.
# capjamesg Very good call.
# capjamesg How would the headers work?
# capjamesg Can you set those in PHP?
# capjamesg Right.
# capjamesg So the server has a TTL on each image?
# capjamesg After which point an image "expires" and the server gets a new one?
# capjamesg Then the server stores the image file and serves it to clients (i.e. my website).
# capjamesg Maybe I should blog about this...
# capjamesg It feels like there are security considerations here.
# capjamesg Like, you need to whitelist everything.
# capjamesg In this case, I'd only want to cache my sparkline.
# capjamesg So I'd have this logic on the sparkline server?
# capjamesg > sparkline API in the webserver in front of it - this part isn't clear to me
# capjamesg Yes.
# capjamesg Does that solve the problem, though?
# capjamesg If I get 10,000 views on my home page, doesn't the sparkline site need to process 10,000 requests?
# capjamesg Em...
# capjamesg This is genius.
# capjamesg sknebel++
# [snarfed] yeah this is common in many web servers and frameworks, eg https://flask-caching.readthedocs.io/ does it for Flask, which afaik you use some capjamesg?
# capjamesg I am using Ruby (Sinatra?) for this service 😄
# capjamesg Ahhhhh you have to pay for that NGINX feature.
# capjamesg The page I am looking at says "NGINX Plus"
# capjamesg > When caching is enabled, NGINX Plus saves responses in a disk cache and uses them to respond to clients without having to proxy requests for the same content every time.
# capjamesg Maybe there's another page?
# capjamesg Oh this is ridiculous.
# capjamesg Yeah.
# capjamesg https://www.nginx.com/blog/nginx-caching-guide/
# capjamesg "This blog post covers techniques that can help both novice and advanced users see better performance from utilizing the content cache features included in NGINX and NGINX Plus."
# capjamesg [edit] https://www.nginx.com/blog/nginx-caching-guide/
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[KevinMarks] For a sparkline, serving stale is not a fail case, so serving the cached one, then deciding whether to regen can be a good choice
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# [tantek] Look at all those isolated blocky nodes, don't they look like they're on their way to interconnect with others at the tree? Bridgy Fed is obviously the trunk of that tree, and the different main branches are different protocol suites/stacks, with perhaps the web at the top / middle as the main/primary representation, and then others branching out from there, to the newest more experimental protocols dangling on the edges of the tree
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "INP" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "INP is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# [KevinMarks] Interaction to Next Paint https://web.dev/articles/inp
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[aciccarello] I was wondering the same and I already follow a lot of Alex's posts 🙈
# [KevinMarks] It's a ui lag measurement, which Google is going to use for ranking from March
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# [aciccarello] My employer develops a web based app for companies to manage funds. Our old architecture is server rendered but has poor code organization so they want to move everything to react. There doesn't seem to be much concern about performance since it is a logged-in experience and our database is already a bottleneck. But I often wonder when React will bite us.
# [aciccarello] Or more accurately, when the "we don't care about page load time" attitude will lead to enough rot that things get really bad.
# AramZS Yeah, I mean, it's fine to say it is a logged in experience but customers who are logged in can have a bad time and that can have consequences too.
# [aciccarello] Does lighthouse have that metric?
# [aciccarello] AramZS Yeah, that seems to be missed. Or at least the baseline is bad enough that it's not yet a concern.
# AramZS I think lighthouse has it, there are a bunch of Google tools for testing CWV
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# AramZS aciccarello Yeah. I mean, if the problem is poor code organization uhhh.... react isn't going to solve that problem haha
# [aciccarello] I see DOM Content Loaded, First Contentful Paint, Time To Interactive, and Largest Contentful Paint in the Chrome "Performance Insights" tab. Don't See INP
# AramZS Looks like it is PageSpeed Insights that they want you to start with - https://web.dev/articles/inp
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# [tantek] I'm looking for a URL of the form something?url=http://example.com that I can just replace example with my domain and get a report
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# Loqi Google PageSpeed Insights is a web-based page analysis tool run by Google that loads a page, its necessary resources, analyzes its performance and other factors and provides a score (based on Google Lighthouse performance) https://indieweb.org/PageSpeed_Insights
# AramZS Looks like only some sites get the INP measure
# AramZS It only shows on some sites apparently, but I found an alternative - https://treo.sh/sitespeed/tantek.com
# AramZS and you can just drop your domain in the url structure
# AramZS what is core web vitals?
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "core web vitals" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "core web vitals is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# AramZS Core web vitals is a set of measurements that help predict user experience of a website's performance.
# Loqi Lighthouse is a Webmention, Microsub, and WebSub server built by Jacky Alciné to provide a means of handling engagement with other websites https://indieweb.org/Lighthouse
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rubenwardy you need enough google traffic for core web vitals to appear
# rubenwardy what is google lighthouse
# Loqi Google Lighthouse is an open source website testing tool for improving “performance, accessibility, progressive web apps, SEO”, that can be run via a website or in Chrome Dev Tools, and used by several members of the IndieWeb community to improve their personal sites https://indieweb.org/Google_Lighthouse
# AramZS what is core web vitals?
# Loqi Core web vitals is a set of measurements that help predict user experience of a website's performance https://indieweb.org/Core_web_vitals
# rubenwardy looks like this https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/14214/f
# [tantek] AramZS, perhaps start with moving CWV to a subsection of https://indieweb.org/Google_Lighthouse ? Since there's no documented indieweb relevance yet
# AramZS tantek I would hate to map it to a Google tool when it def has more broad implications? I was thinking of starting with the page linking to other pages on documented tools and links to non-wiki-ed tools?
# rubenwardy yeah pretty much
# AramZS I think tho Google generally has led on CWV a lot of places are using those measurements, even if SEO pushed them to.
# rubenwardy the actual measures inside Core Web Vitals are fairly common though
# [KevinMarks] From my pov if Alex is vouching for it, it's likely useful.
# AramZS I also think they're good for websites and the web experience generally
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jacky like even reading https://www.cloudflare.com/learning/performance/what-are-core-web-vitals/, it's mainly/solely Google
# AramZS A lot of site building tooling projects use them to show their performance as well, tho that's a chicken and egg problem that is hard to deal with when it comes to Google.
# rubenwardy I'd say CWV is Google's term for web performance stats that it uses, but the stats themselves are fialry common
# AramZS like 11ty - https://www.11ty.dev/speedlify/
# rubenwardy that's specifically lighthouse though, not CWV
# rubenwardy +11ty is
# rubenwardy yeah
# AramZS Like a lot of things Google has decided matter, its origin and maintenance by Google are irrelevant as it takes on a life of its own just through the sheer gravity Google endows on to any of these type of projects :/
# [tantek] the page got deleted on Wikipedia because it was advertising / promotion lol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_Web_Vitals
# AramZS I def know outside folks debate the metrics and process with Google to some results.
# AramZS 'aight I'll move under lighthouse, it just seems odd when part of the point is listing tools that are not lighthouse that provide similar / the same metrics?
# AramZS Ok, that makes sense
# AramZS Oh no, I mean they argue directly with Google about measures and processes. It's caused Google to abandon and replace at least two or three of the measures in Lighthouse with measures that make more logical sense.
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# AramZS Added some more extensive notes around this to the page https://indieweb.org/Google_Core_Web_Vitals
# rubenwardy something key about CWV is that it's done as part of their web crawler. Unlike Lighthouse, which is a browser extension/client side tool
# rubenwardy oh wait no, user devices. Not web crawler
# rubenwardy so when you see CWV on that Page Insights page, it's crowdsourced from a large number of actual user devices running Chrome
# AramZS yeah, it would be awesome if Google could do something about all of its own stuff that triggers CWVs lol
# AramZS lol yeah, I do when I can! Sadly, not my choice on some of the projects I work on.