#dev 2024-01-09

2024-01-09 UTC
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[tantek] does anyone here use a static site CMS for their personal site?
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[tantek] maybe I should ask in #indieweb
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GWG gRegor: Where to take notes
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gRegor Where do you usually publish notes :)
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GWG Is this a note? Maybe
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[Murray] what is a static site CMS
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Loqi A static site CMS is a CMS that can be used to view, edit, and create static files used by a static site generator https://indieweb.org/static_site_CMS
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d​rn4007 [tantek]: Thanks Tantek, I'm building login with Github capability at the moment. Will reach out here with any relmeauth questions
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c​apjamesg I’m excited to see what you build drn4007[d]!
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d​rn4007 capjamesg[d]: Thanks 😅 So am I!
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c​apjamesg What other web components should I make?
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[tantek] [snarfed] starrwulfe do either of you use Vercel on your personal site or projects? If so can you add to /Vercel accordingly or at least document why it's IndieWeb relevant?
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s​tarrwulfe I'm doing a test site on it right now.
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s​tarrwulfe Already have the Wiki open writing <@1114282188880494602> 😉
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[tantek] whoa what is @1114282188880494602 ?!? https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2024-01-09/1704829341989800
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[snarfed] starrwulfe++
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Loqi starrwulfe has 2 karma in this channel over the last year (5 in all channels)
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c​apjamesg starrwulfe[d] Counterintuitively, you don't need the @ when tagging people who have the [BOT] Tag here on Discord.
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s​tarrwulfe Discord noise!
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c​apjamesg @[tantek]
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Loqi [preview] [IWDiscord] <s​tarrwulfe#0> Already have the Wiki open writing <@1114282188880494602> 😉
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c​apjamesg Wow, it didn't happen for me.
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s​tarrwulfe I'm actually bridging discord into matrix so I have no idea who has BOT or not
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c​apjamesg Our Discord bridge is quirky 🙃
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c​apjamesg Oh wow.
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c​apjamesg Bridge-ception.
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s​tarrwulfe I got bridges on bridges with bridges
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s​tarrwulfe You might say I'm...
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s​tarrwulfe ...BridgyFedWithBridges...
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IWDiscord <s​tarrwulfe#0>
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IWDiscord <s​tarrwulfe#0>
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s​tarrwulfe Sorry @snarfed...
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c​apjamesg You should bridge from your website to Matrix.
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c​apjamesg Website -> Matrix -> Discord -> IRC.
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s​tarrwulfe Don't tempt me with a good time
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c​apjamesg ✨
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s​tarrwulfe There's my 100Days project right there
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[snarfed] lol. that branding is not the best, naming two separate services "Bridgy" and "Bridgy Fed" definitely confuses people sometimes
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[snarfed] the Bridgy "brand" has some traction, expanding it seemed like useful leverage at the time, but now I'm not so sure
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s​tarrwulfe How about Bridgy Hub or Bridgy Central? It kinda makes a website central to the fediverse
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s​tarrwulfe As opposed to it being another node/client
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[snarfed] "Fed" isn't the confusing part, the reuse of "Bridgy" is
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s​tarrwulfe Oh. Hmm. Gimme a moment to write this Vercel thing and then I'll think about that. I'm pretty good at coming up with names
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[tantek] wait there's a Discord-Matrix bridge?!? (we can take that to #indieweb-meta)
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[snarfed] heh sure! just fyi though I doubt I'd rename it now, that would probably cause even more confusion
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[tantek] Bridgy++ grow the brand! It's a genius name [snarfed]++
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Loqi Bridgy has 3 karma in this channel over the last year (7 in all channels)
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Loqi [snarfed] has 71 karma in this channel over the last year (115 in all channels)
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[tantek] [snarfed] if you're considering renamings, I have a minor suggestion: Bridgy Publish -> BridgyPub 🙂
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s​tarrwulfe Yep. Beeper runs one, but it's just the off the shelf one though:
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s​tarrwulfe https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-appservice-discord
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Loqi [preview] [matrix-org] matrix-appservice-discord: A bridge between Matrix and Discord.
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[snarfed] [tantek] lol. what's the rationale? confuse with/align with Micropub?
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[tantek] more AP but yeah, since there are broader positive associations with CapitalwordPub, BridgyPub would benefit from that
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[snarfed] maybe! for developers maybe yes, not sure about for non-developers
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[tantek] also it would give the feature / service a more easily searchable oneword term — easier to find in large docs or web search for specific references
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[tantek] usual naming considerations to help others find your unique & special needle in the haystack of the web
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[snarfed] interesting! I don't know how much value I'd get from trying to publicize/advertise individual features like that, as opposed to the brand overall
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[snarfed] I did quietly rename Listen => Backfeed, but that was just to use a more widely understood term (and one aligned w/IndieWeb)
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[snarfed] 🤷
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[tantek] ooh I like BridgyListen (or some variant) for Bridgy Backfeed
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[tantek] it sounds so kind & friendly
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[tantek] less jargony too for broader dev(-adjacent) appeal
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[snarfed] hah. it was Listen forever, I only changed it to Backfeed maybe a year or two ago
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[snarfed] naming is hard 🤷
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[tantek] as you expand the Bridgy suite of services, (consistent and complementary) naming becomes more important
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[snarfed] yup
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[tantek] another thought: BridgyBlue
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[snarfed] ...for what?
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[tantek] for the suite of Bridgy services that connect to or otherwise do things with Bluesky
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[snarfed] ah
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[snarfed] I'm generally avoiding single-network tools like that, at least under the Bridgy brand
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[tantek] that's a good design criteria / methodology
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aaronpk o.O indieauth mention here https://github.blog/2023-11-30-securing-our-home-labs-home-assistant-code-review/
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c​apjamesg 😮
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aaronpk with some security considerations that resulted in this change to the oauth UI https://github.com/home-assistant/frontend/pull/17459
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[snarfed] IndieAuth++ ooh GitHub++
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Loqi IndieAuth has 2 karma over the last year
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Loqi GitHub has 1 karma over the last year
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Loqi [preview] [bramkragten] #17459 Auth: Make it clearer where you are logging in to
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aaronpk oh gosh, they had a really bad bug in the state parameter
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c​apjamesg !mf2 https://jamesg.blog
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c​apjamesg !pin13 https://jamesg.blog/
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c​apjamesg Maybe that command doesn't work here too?
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c​apjamesg [edit] !pin13 https://jamesg.blog/
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c​apjamesg [edit] !mf2 https://jamesg.blog
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[snarfed] seems like discord generally isn't triggering bots?
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[snarfed] or at least Loqi
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aaronpk I should update this finally cause it looks like the discord bot is here to stay in this form
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aaronpk usually it expects the ! As the first thing in the message
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Loqi definitely
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gRegor what is ai.txt
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "ai.txt" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "ai.txt is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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gRegor ai.txt is /well-known#something.txt
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Loqi ok
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s​tarrwulfe Hey how about BridgeOver? Because its a bridge over gap of communication between networks?
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gRegor capjamesg, you might be interested in that^. I have mixed feelings about it, but it's an option.
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[snarfed] starrwulfe 😁
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gRegor In theory at least, anyone using their API should not find your content if you have ai.txt set up.
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gRegor I tried to contact them to opt out my domain but they basically were manually verifying ownership of the domain by looking for my email on it, which I don't have. No <meta> tag or other way to verify domain (like IndieAuth!). So I reluctantly added ai.txt
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to2ds .well-known/ai.txt is a thing now? Awesome!
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[snarfed] just /ai.txt, no .well-known
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to2ds [snarfed] - Ah! Thx.
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to2ds I would like a generice file in .well-known that covers all bases. Maybe something like gtfo.txt? 😄
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superkuh You'd think that'd be covered as a subset of robots.
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gRegor ai.txt is a proprietary one, though maybe it will get more adoption. :shrug:
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gRegor https://spawning.ai/spawning-api
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gRegor Appears to have worked for my domain if the search on https://haveibeentrained.com/ is correct
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c​apjamesg [snarfed] I appear to have broken something.
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c​apjamesg https://granary.io/url?input=html&output=rss&url=https://jamesg.blog
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c​apjamesg https://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fjamesg.blog
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[snarfed] looks like your top level h-feed has a child h-feed, and the posts are all in the child
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gRegor h-feed all the way down
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c​apjamesg My HTML doesn't?
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c​apjamesg Oh, it has an mf1 one.
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[snarfed] got me, that's what the pin13 ^ mf2 has
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c​apjamesg 🤦
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lazcorp I've just added the ai.txt file to my site. I do already have quite a few LLM bots blocked in robots.txt
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c​apjamesg I was like "there is only one h-feed in this view-source link!"
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[tantek] .well-known--
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[tantek] well-known--
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Loqi well-known has -5 karma in this channel over the last year (-8 in all channels)
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c​apjamesg lazcorp I have been thinking about word tools after last week's HWC. I want to make something but I am unsure what yet!
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[tantek] there's a meta tag proposal
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gRegor fynd++
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Loqi fynd has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (2 in all channels)
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Soni our goal with web+feed was to promote atom, did it actually do anything?
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[tantek] I don't necessarily like or advocate for this, just stating that this proposal exists (and feel free to critique accordingly) https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/9479
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[tantek] fynd++
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Loqi fynd has 2 karma in this channel over the last year (3 in all channels)
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Loqi [preview] [evayde] #9479 Proposal: Meta Tag for AI Generated Content
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lazcorp [c​apjamesg] they are very interesting to make!
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[snarfed] what is fynd
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "fynd" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "fynd is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] wait really
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[tantek] what is FYN
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Loqi 👃 follow your nose is an intentional principle for designing discovery algorithms that start with the specific URL you want to discover things about, retrieving headers or contents, and parsing for particular link rel values to URLs to the desired information, in contrast to the “well-known” approach of looking outside the specific URL, like using only its domain and a hardcoded path https://indieweb.org/FYN
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[tantek] fynd is /follow_your_nose#FYND
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Loqi ok
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[snarfed] had me wading through https://www.google.com/search?q=fynd
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[tantek] 👀
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c​apjamesg [snarfed] Granary still isn't happy.
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[tantek] IndieAuth++ aaronpk that mention is worth blogging about!! Is there an IndieAuth blog? Or is it just https://aaronparecki.com/tag/indieauth ? 🙂
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Loqi IndieAuth has 3 karma over the last year
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c​apjamesg I wonder why my h-entries are a child of the h-card.
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[snarfed] ^ right that's it
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c​apjamesg Oh I know exactly why.
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c​apjamesg [snarfed]++
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Loqi [snarfed] has 72 karma in this channel over the last year (116 in all channels)
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[tantek] what's wrong with h-entry being a child of h-feed being a child of h-card? 👀
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[snarfed] nothing, but I don't currently have any plans to make granary understand and handle arbitrary shapes of mf2
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[tantek] um, seems to be supported 😄 https://granary.io/url?input=html&output=atom&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com%2F
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c​apjamesg [tantek] How does rel=license work for all rights reserved?
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[snarfed] capjamesg's mf2 is shaped differently
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[snarfed] (or at least was)
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c​apjamesg It still isn't working?
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[tantek] capjamesg, feel free to link to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_rights_reserved 😄
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c​apjamesg Ah, caching!
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[snarfed] capjamesg try with &cache=false
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[snarfed] yeah
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gRegor what is rel-license
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "rel-license" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "rel-license is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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c​apjamesg Thank you!
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gRegor what is license
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Loqi license is terms under which you are allowed to (re)use a piece of work; in the context of the IndieWeb, for source code such as in open source projects, or content, like the IndieWeb wiki itself which has a specific Copyright https://indieweb.org/license
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c​apjamesg The good ol' &.
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[snarfed] https://github.com/snarfed/granary/#using-the-rest-api
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gRegor https://microformats.org/wiki/rel-license
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c​apjamesg Okay, I have one more question.
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c​apjamesg Why is my author - (James)
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[snarfed] looking
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[snarfed] oh because the rss entry author field is formatted `email (name)`
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[snarfed] https://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification#ltauthorgtSubelementOfLtitemgt
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c​apjamesg No way.
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c​apjamesg Wow.
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[snarfed] feel free to add an email address to your h-card I guess 😈
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[snarfed] I guess I could default to webmaster@
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[tantek] RSS-- for that kind of weirdness. Yet another reason to instead use something that's a lot more precisely & meaningfully specified like Atom++
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Loqi Atom has 1 karma over the last year
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Loqi RSS has -1 karma over the last year
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lazcorp Did the JSON Feed ever gain any traction?
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lazcorp I know Inoreader can read JSON Feeds, but I've never seen that many of them around
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[snarfed] hmm I wonder why the 🔮 at the end of https://tantek.com/2024/003/t1/2023-indieweb-gift-calendar-numbers got stripped out of the federated version, eg https://indieweb.social/@tantek.com@tantek.com/111696959086545319 (requires login)
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[snarfed] odd
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[snarfed] it's in the AS2 content that BF sent, and Mastodon handles that emoji on its own fine, https://indieweb.social/@snarfed/111728290682651117 , so... 🤷
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[snarfed] ok, I think I'm finally ready to ship v1 of Bridgy Fed's all-web-sites-via-metaformats-and-Atom/RSS support. docs: , https://fed.brid.gy/docs#web-profile , https://fed.brid.gy/docs#web-how-post
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[snarfed] automatic vs manual post bridging logic: https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/issues/774#issuecomment-1883586155
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[snarfed] feedback is welcome!
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Loqi [preview] [snarfed] Tentative starting answers here, open to revision: * Start by automatically federating posts from the first discovered feed on the home page. * Followers will only see posts from the feed posted going forward, starting from when they first follow, ...
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[tantek] 👀
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[tantek] What did I break this time [snarfed]? 🔮 👀
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[snarfed] yeah man I have no clue there but pretty sure it's on Mastodon's end
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[tantek] cool cool
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[tantek] also since you're here, I updated that post with updated Gift Calendar figures, webmentioned BridgyFed (twice), and bupkiss — zero updates on my dashboard
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[tantek] tl;dr: it looks like "federating updates" from IndieWeb -> AP broke recently in BridgyFed
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[snarfed] hmm, will look
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[snarfed] definitely not broken across the board, I'm still federating posts and other interactions fine
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[snarfed] [tantek] I'm struggling to find any record of those webmentions in BF's logs
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[snarfed] latest one I can find is 1/4 1:22:49am PT, the original one for that post
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[snarfed] any chance you have timestamps, response status codes, bodies etc for any later ones you sent?
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[tantek] hmm no, I used mention.tech to send them
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[tantek] oh wait
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[tantek] my bad, the BridgyFed link timed out (no longer on that post). one moment...
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[snarfed] np!
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[tantek] just resent. let's see what the dashboard latency is
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[tantek] just showed up in dashboard. so ~60s
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[tantek] and just started propagating to servers
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[tantek] so another 30s or so
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[snarfed] hmm, should show up in the dashboard faster than that, but otherwise yeah
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[tantek] I'm assuming there are a bunch of queues and such all the inbound wms to BF have to filter through
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[snarfed] sure, but still