#dev 2024-02-11
2024-02-11 UTC
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# 
Soni we kinda wanted soupault to setup our filesystem layout for us (a la /year/month/day-filename.html) but that doesn't seem to be something it can do
# Soni we really like soupault's approach to SSG tho
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# [m] ↩️ It seems to work. Two issues though, the app password needs to be added every time which makes it hard to automate. The url seems to be posted in plain and not unfurled like when you post a link in the app. Example below
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# [snarfed] [m] glad it's working! you automate with webmention or micropub: https://brid.gy/about#publish-automatically
# [snarfed] and yeah good point on the link. links and mentions and tags in general will be tricky, https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/1661 , but linkifying that link should be straightforward
# [m] ↩️ I use webmention but I was afraid that the app password was not saved. But using webmention will work if I understand you correctly?
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# Soni what is h-feed
# 
Loqi h-feed is a microformats2 draft specification with a top level feed object to contain root class(h-*) objects, usually h-entry posts and optionally a common author, name, and representative photo https://indieweb.org/h-feed
# Soni how do you discover an h-feed/open a link to one
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# Soni GWG: exactly, so as far as anything knows, it's a regular browser page
# Soni if you click it, it'll open in a browser. if you download it and attempt to resolve its type, it'll open in a browser. if you download it and somehow manage to open it in a feed reader... the feed reader has no way of knowing what the feed source is, so you can't actually follow it/subscribe.
# Soni (something something this isn't an issue if you use fedilinks but h-feed doesn't call for fedilinks so eh)
# Soni GWG: no, we're assuming the feed reader supports h-feed
# Soni you can view a downloaded snapshot of an h-feed but not follow/subscribe
# Soni GWG: but that's not how mime types work
# Soni mime types are for files, not for paths
# Soni (you can even have mime types without paths, for example in an email)
# Soni GWG: we want to click a link and have the *ability* to subscribe
# Soni which is exactly what fedilinks does
# Loqi A web action is the interface and user experience of taking a specific discrete action, across the web, from one site to another site or application, like a cross-site follow button, or a reply button on a post, which when activated, allows you to reply using your own site instead of the site you are viewing https://indieweb.org/webaction
# Soni no those are bad
# Soni fedilinks is more like deep links
# Soni where you can click a discord/twitter link and it opens in the discord/twitter app instead of the browser
# Soni then maybe they should make a feed reader that supports them
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# Soni but also, if you don't have an app, then it should still open in the browser
# Soni (that's the entire point of h-feed, isn't it?)
# Soni sigh
# Soni may we shove fedilinks into your apps, if you have any
# Soni we will happily implement fedilinks and submit a PR
# 
[Murray] Honestly, I'm also not sure. I don't think http://Brid.gy tracks deletions, though, which seems to be the main bone of contention. And I'm not sure if many webmention sending services are easily able to send deletions. But yeah, I'm not sure
# Loqi Webmention is an open web standard (W3C Recommendation) for conversations and interactions across the web, a powerful building block used for a growing distributed network of peer-to-peer comments, likes, reposts, and other responses across the web https://indieweb.org/webmention
# [Murray] there's some coverage of implementations at https://indieweb.org/deleted
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# [snarfed] sounds like this is re https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy/issues/907#issuecomment-570738356 ?
# _tommys if i wanted to port my Neocities pages over to another site, how could i do this cheaply? i already have an account with Pikapods where i also manage a few other apps, but i'm a bit of a novice and i'm not sure if they offer something that would allow me to do what i want to do
# Loqi NeoCities is a free website hosting silo in the spirit of defunct silo GeoCities (Yahoo shutdown in 2009) that looks like a stepping stone to getting started on the IndieWeb https://indieweb.org/neocities
# _tommys they do offer a full download of the site, so i'm confident in that aspect
# _tommys i have a couple of backups from when i was messing around with the CLI 😁
# _tommys but importing to another host i'm not sure about
# _tommys What is Pikapods
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Pikapods" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Pikapods is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# _tommys can you help me understand if there's something in here that would do the job? https://www.pikapods.com/apps
# _tommys [edit] can you help me understand if there's something in here that would do the job? https://www.pikapods.com/apps
# _tommys ok, appreciate you checking 🙂
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# [m] [snarfed] I’m having some issues with backfeeding on bluesky. In Bridgy I can read sending, same message hour after hour and when I’m checking the logs, all I get is no log found.
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# [m] The two latest responses to this post https://bsky.app/profile/marcuslindblom.com/post/3kl4nf5k5p42s
# Loqi [preview] [Marcus Lindblom] Mastering Success: Frank Slootman’s Steps and Strife’s Strategic Approach: https://marcuslindblom.com/journal/mastering-success-frank-slootmans-steps-and-strifes-strategic-approach
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# 
[catgirlinspace] any ideas on what’s wrong with this h-entry? as far as i can tell it has the same things as my template for normal notes, and those get sent fine, but this doesn’t. telegraph doesn’t find any urls and the sender on http://indiewebify.me says it sends stuff but bridgy fed shows nothing. also tmk my own sender thing is sending stuff whenever new sleep things are added, so im really confused what’s wrong with it.
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# 
aaronpk if you look at the parsed result, your h-card is the first object, so that can confuse some consumers https://php.microformats.io/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcatgirlin.space%2Factivity%2Fsleep-2024-02-11%2F
# [catgirlinspace] confused why it works for a note then but not my funny sleep thing. because this note worked fine https://catgirlin.space/activity/9ee7c6c6cbdc1bc1f909c10cfa35e9a5/
# [catgirlinspace] with that note the h-card is the first thing too and also no u-author (need to do that sometime oops)
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# [snarfed] [catgirlinspace] I don't see that BF ever received a webmention for https://catgirlin.space/activity/sleep-2024-02-11/
# [catgirlinspace] >.< so confusing
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# [Murray] I feel like it could be useful for non-backfeed webmentions, too. It gives them a layer of privacy controls that actually mimics social media a little more closely, by introducing something like a "for friends" or "private" comment. And it adds an extra layer of benefit to POSSE, in that backfed content (that appears Fedi-native or ATProto-native) would have a root that contains microformats.
# [Al_Abut] @_tommys I still use GitHub but now it triggers a build on Netflify instead of hosting from GH pages. The reason for that is I switched from making the html/css manually to the Astro site generator and Netlify builds that automatically whenever I push to github. So that way I don’t have to build it locally and it skips a step.
# [Murray] yep, though to be honest, thinking about it, I might even _use_ "quiet" webmentions (good name). My site doesn't send webmentions right now, because I've always found it too hard a problem to solve, but most of the links that I do save there are bookmarks. I make notes on those bookmarks (that's why I save them) but I've often wondered what to do with those notes if I were to send out wms. I mean, I'd like to know if someone bookmarked an
# [Murray] sure, and that's fine. I guess that simultaneously shifts additional work to people, and speaking as someone who rarely gets webmentions at all, that may also just be because you get quite a lot 😄 If you don't get many, there is a certain sense of pride in having even off-topic ones (or at least, that's how I feel 😉)
# [Al_Abut] I realize now that I opened a can of worms by opining what the default behavior should be on webmentions when it’s something I’ve only known about for a few months (sorry, lol) but if I can help by continuing to channel normies for a bit (also sorry but it’s what I do for a living) I’d clarify that newcomers to Mastodon like me don’t really think of it as federated, even after a year of being active on the network. Or if they’re
# [Al_Abut] it, it’s like an underling technical detail that makes “open source twitter” possible. It’s not necessarily viewed as a feature the way more technical types do.
# [Al_Abut] I get the possible non-Mastodon benefits like pinging blogs and following Pixelfed and etc on a conceptual level
# [Al_Abut] But in practice I still get that “whoa, wait, my interactions just went where?!?” feeling when I see my words replicated, in a way that I don’t with links to the originating source
# [Al_Abut] Maybe it’s me, I’ll stop harping, just trying to talk through the UX from a non-tech viewpoint
# [Al_Abut] Thank you! I don’t want to muddy the waters or seem ungrateful for people doing the hard technical work to draw our social circles closer… it’s really not understating things when I say how much of a mental boost HWC and IWC have been
# [Murray] That's all good 🙂 I think from my perspective it would be super interesting to see if that user expectation changes over time, and in what way. There was a big shift with the advent of social media as lots of new people joined the web as more active participants, and that created many new mental models. But my hope is that this new wave of protocols can bring a similar shift in expectations, away from having accounts on specific services,
# [Murray] I also know email is the oft-pointed to example, and perhaps isn't so relevant today, but I do find it interesting that people don't question the interoperability that it affords, but when something else gains interoperability (or that interoperability is just noticed for the first time) that it's not seen in the same, beneficial light
# [Al_Abut] Infighting with those you have shared goals is a favorite pastime of our species.
# [Al_Abut] Was it Freud that coined the phrase “narcissism of tiny differences?”
# [Al_Abut] Well said
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# _tommys @Al_Abut that makes sense 🙂 i'm thinking about doing the opposite haha, atm i don't think i care too much about saving my versions and just want to be able to deploy to a live site, but with the added benefit of doing server-side stuff that GH pages doesn't allow