#dev 2024-02-22
2024-02-22 UTC
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_tommys currently learning how to send email using Netlify Functions - i try whenever i can to avoid Amazon services, but seems like they are the preferred 'free tier' for this sort of offering. any recs besides them?
# _tommys trying to use open source solutions as much as i can
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# _tommys went ahead with SendGrid, was really simple to use!
# _tommys i just noticed that my indieweb.social .rss feed doesn't contain the full list of toots - is this a Mastodon thing, or an indieweb.social thing?
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[0x3b0b] I think it gets a little confusing because of different uses of the term in different places, especially so for me because I was vaguely aware of the Delicious-and-company "social bookmarking" service boom a while back but didn't really participate, and more recent silo evolutions _seem_ either to focus less on the social or to focus more on an accompanying discussion thread. Browser and Mastocetera bookmarks, meanwhile, aren't public and don't...
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[schmarty] what are bookmarks?
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Loqi bookmarks are sometimes part of the information about a post displayed on the post itself, sometimes in a post footer, like a total number bookmark responses, icons of recent bookmarkers, or even a datetime ordered list of bookmarks https://indieweb.org/bookmarks
# [schmarty] ^^ a few examples in there of folks who display webmentions received from "bookmark-of" posts.
# [schmarty] the receiving end should be looking for microformats on the page to indicate what to "slurp" for display. if the bookmark is contained in an h-entry, that might get summarized for display as just "so-and-so bookmarked this post" without any of the associated content, similar to how adactio does.
# [schmarty] if the page doesn't have microformats, or the receiving site doesn't make sense of them, most folks just treat that as a "mention" - a generic "this page linked here".
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# [schmarty] I'm not aware of many consumers that "understand" nested h-feed, but giving entries (and h-feeds) their own permalinks with fragment identifiers works in many cases.
# [schmarty] One of the main considerations when dealing with microformats is understanding what consumers and consuming cases you want to support.
# [schmarty] to2ds: that description makes sense to me. however, unless you are targeting some existing software or service that "understands" those nested h-feeds, or planning on writing your own, it doesn't really benefit you.
# [schmarty] for what it's worth, microformats typically models categories as belonging to the specific entry. for example: an h-entry with properties for u-bookmark-of and p-category. i'm not aware of any consumers that would "look for" a category on an h-feed and "apply" that to all the h-entry children inside.
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jacky a more verbose description of it can be found here https://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing#algorithm (of everything that _should_ be found)
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[tantek] to2ds obligatory https://tantek.com/2012/353/b1/why-html-classes-css-class-selectors 🙂
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[KevinMarks] We're also fighting a continuous rearguard action against the proliferation of so-called utility classes, which can ass extra noise to parsing
# [KevinMarks] *add
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aaronpk "utility classes" refers to classes defined by a CSS framework, like this https://tailwindcss.com/docs/width
# aaronpk some of them have the unfortunate overlap of sharing prefixes with microformats classes https://tailwindcss.com/docs/padding e.g. "p-0"
# Loqi Tailwind is a relatively new CSS framework, created to enable responsive website design, which appears to replicate similar functionality as the standard HTML style attribute, though using abbreviated cryptic class names, despite which, some in the IndieWeb community have found useful in designing their sites https://indieweb.org/Tailwind
# Loqi ok, I added "https://joaquinmarti.com/posts/tailwind-utility-classes-as-an-antipattern/" to the "See Also" section of /Tailwind https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=93407&oldid=89163
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# [Joao_Paulo_Pes] hi all 👋 very new to the indie web here, great discussion on HTML classes!
# [Joao_Paulo_Pes] any thoughts on creating custom markup for presentation purposes to make it easier to reuse common styles without using utility classes? for example this grid system: https://rsms.me/raster/
# [Joao_Paulo_Pes] is custom markup also evil in any way?
# aaronpk this is a good demo of the problem https://twitter.com/sanketsahu/status/1243935639776550914
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# Loqi ok, I added "https://twitter.com/sanketsahu/status/1243935639776550914 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUNYTRaU0AEObaG?format=jpg&name=small&x=.jpg" to the "See Also" section of /Tailwind https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=93409&oldid=93408
# [Joao_Paulo_Pes] playing the devils advocate here, the benefits of tailwind is the convenience separating the concerns (style and content). there's a convenience of not having to jump from css to html all the time. and you can't do everything in `style` (media queries, hover, _etc_). as i see it, people are ignoring semantic (as in "semantic web") in favor of convenience. not saying i agree.
# [Joao_Paulo_Pes] the creator of tailwind has an explanation of his reasons for building it here: https://adamwathan.me/css-utility-classes-and-separation-of-concerns/
# [Joao_Paulo_Pes] the convenience of not separating concerns*
# [Joao_Paulo_Pes] exactly, typo there. there's a convenience in not separating the concerns.
# [Joao_Paulo_Pes] it's like the convenience of eating fast food because it's easier than cooking. not saying i agree hehe
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# [Joao_Paulo_Pes] > i think the question would be does this reinvent anything that plain HTML and CSS gives you?
# [Joao_Paulo_Pes] custom html elements for presentational purposes kinda reinvent the wheel because you can always copy and paste a bunch of css properties to a new selector
# [Joao_Paulo_Pes] the css https://tabatkins.github.io/specs/css-extend-rule/ would help with that
# [Joao_Paulo_Pes] i was just wondering what are your thoughts on custom html elements because the alternative i see to never using presentational/utility classes would be either to create custom html elements or add a css pre-processor (another dependency, which i'm currently trying to avoid 😢)
# [Joao_Paulo_Pes] > If used lightly, probably not a problem
# [Joao_Paulo_Pes] i like this middle-way approach
# superkuh As long as they wrap real html elements so the text/whatever is still there if JS doesn't go well.
# superkuh And the hyphenated custom HTML fail.
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gRegor to2ds, catching up from scrollback. Another thing about mf2 is that social readers will consume a list of h-entry elements without an h-feed as an implicit feed, so h-feed is kind of optional. h-feed is mainly useful if you want to provide a title/author for the feed as a whole, which consumers can use.
# gRegor https://monocle.p3k.io/preview is a helpful preview tool I use for this a lot
# Loqi h-feed is a microformats2 draft specification with a top level feed object to contain root class(h-*) objects, usually h-entry posts and optionally a common author, name, and representative photo https://indieweb.org/h-feed
# [tantek] gRegor, my "monthly" archive pages have multiple h-entry and no h-feed, e.g.: https://tantek.com/2024/01
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# gRegor Nice, there you go: https://monocle.p3k.io/preview?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com%2F2024%2F01
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# Loqi The authorship testing tool is a service to run the authorship algorithm for a URL. It's sometimes referred to as Sturdy Backbone based on the URL Glitch automatically generated https://indieweb.org/authorship_testing_tool
# gRegor Yeah, the algorithm will use rel-author https://indieweb.org/authorship-spec#Algorithm. There's other options without h-feed, though, like including the author information in each h-entry