#dev 2024-03-27
2024-03-27 UTC
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[tantek] and then URL + a block quoted with “ ” quotes for /quotation posts
# [tantek] interesting, mention.tech couldn't fetch fed.bridgy. Heads-up [snarfed] https://mention.tech/ shows mentioned http://fed.brid.gy/ "✅ 26 seconds ago could not fetch https://fed.brid.gy/ '555'"
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# [tantek] because they were all /quotation posts and I don't have an explicit way of supporting those on my site so I had to hand-craft an equivalent plain text note
# [tantek] [snarfed] nm, looks like retrying with mention.tech eventually worked. The most recent three posts have now shown up on https://fed.brid.gy/web/tantek.com
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[KevinMarks] My old twitter way was using guillemots wrong as they look like both quotes and email > quoting: https://x.com/kevinmarks/status/1996668497?s=20
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bebethatsme grrrr, so annoyed with people right now
# bebethatsme who don't seem to get that discord username are in fact googlable
# bebethatsme oops wrong room
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jacky looks interesting https://unstable.fedify.dev/tutorial/ (closest thing to this we got is IndieKit, no?)
# jacky a demo of a blog https://fedify-blog.deno.dev/followers
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# [campegg] Re: mandaris' question about `h1` from #indieweb—I might be bucking the trend here, but I don't see multiple `h1`s as problematic, especially when used with sectioned elements (`article`, `section`, etc). Using a book as an analog, there is only one `title` for the volume but each chapter's title could be thought of as an `h1` with `h(n)` used to demarcate subsequent lower-level sections.
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capjamesg aaronpk Aperture isn't loading https://poetry.onl/read?format=rss. I assume the content type is off, but it's a bit frustrating 😄
# [campegg] But on the flip side, the Mozilla dev docs do recommend *not* using multiple `h1`s: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/Heading_Elements (and I tend to avoid doing it myself)
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aaronpk Odd, XRay can parse it fine https://xray.p3k.app/parse?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpoetry.onl%2Fread%3Fformat%3Drss&pretty=true
# [campegg] capjamesg I dislike that "The `h1` is for the page title only." simplification. Surely `title` is for the title? While I do understand the reasoning, it does seem more like a result of the way people use the tag (which important and generally overrides theoretical purity) than a semantically-accurate description of the document.
# [campegg] The relegation of `title` to being treated as metadata seems like a weird design/implementation decision to me.
# [campegg] I'm (mostly) sure there are (good?) reasons for it, though
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mandaris My reasoning is the same as campegg. I have individual `article` elements and they have h1 tags. I do not have a header that contains the title of the page. I know... "bucking the trend". When I'm browsing the internet I see a lot of very popular websites that only have images or divs that contain the website title. In my personal testing I hear the voiceover say the `title` of the page.
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# redblobgames Related: "can h3 be under h1 without h2 in between"
# redblobgames Earlier this week I was looking up "can <section> be inside <section>" because my articles have sections but I was trying to make a home page that included snippets of each article. So many little structural things to get right. Or I could give up and make everything div!
# [Joe_Crawford] [campegg] as a practical matter documents made of html sometimes get composed from other documents - think of a book chapter which has an h1 title, now put a collection of those together and as a practical matter creating that page out of the contents of the chapters puts you in violation. But as a goal generally, 1 h1 is a goal. I know I violate that sometimes.
# [Joe_Crawford] anything made of human creation will be a can of worms 🙂 But one can seek to be disciplined about it to the extent practical
# [campegg] [Joe_Crawford] oh yeah, I get the practicalities of it, for sure! But logically, it bugs me because in my head, I see `title` > `h1` > `h(2-6)` as the semantic progression, where each major content section of a page could (should) have its own top-level heading. Equating `title` with `h1` seems illogical to me, but given that `title` is only ever show in the window/tab, I can see why we've landed where we have.
# [campegg] And yeah, to [tantek]'s point, I remember having some pretty robust discussions about the sematics of `title` vs `h1` way back at Web Essentials/Web Directions in the mid-00s
# [campegg] I think in practical reality terms, there's probably not a whole lot of need to re-open that can of worms 😆
# [campegg] You're right, the accessibility argument should be the winner there
# [campegg] But it offends my sensibilities nonetheless
# redblobgames I think of title as the page title as seen from outside context (e.g. bookmark or search engine) and h1 as page title as seen from inside context (you're already on the site)
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jeremycherfas A late, cool take: <title> is metadata, not presentational. <Hn> is presentational. The heading levels mirror, to some extent, the different levels in a printed document, and if you want to drive yourself made, just look at the various paragraph numbering schemes offered by Word.
# jeremycherfas So, If you want to use H1 to echo the actual title, at the top of a thing, do that. But I personally would not use more than one H1 on a page. I would not skip H2 and go straight to H3 either, but I think plenty of people do in order to give what they consider to be due stress to the sub-division.
# jeremycherfas drive yourself mad
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# redblobgames Within a single document on its own I don't see a reason to skip H2 and go down to H3. However I often have a collection of documents that are sharing some structure and/or CSS. And there, I have conflicting goals: I want the document on its own to have good structure (H1 / H2 / H3) but I *also* want to have the document to match other documents. The second level heading in this document might correspond to the third level heading i
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# jeremycherfas If individual article titles are H1, then on a page that offers extracts from several articles, like a home page or index page, it should be possible to make them H2s although I confess I do not do that myself. I could ... but instead I have different CSS for H1 on that kind of page.
# [campegg] …but having `h1` echoing `title` violates DRY (I know, I know… I'll stop now 😉)
# jeremycherfas I don't think it does, precisely because title is metadata and H1 is presentational. The intent is different.
# redblobgames If you want to use title instead of h1: CSS head > *
{ display: none } head, head > title { display: block }# jeremycherfas Like when you see a title that includes the name of the author and the name of the site.
# [campegg] From a real world perspective, I do concede that multiple `h1`s is not good practice. I still think it's weird and semantically messed up, but I'll bow to the convention. I have to wonder if `title` was _intended_ to be metadata, though… given that one of the original use cases for the HTML was publishing academic work, and that academic papers don't treat their titles as metadata, it seems out of place. But intent and outcome are differe
# [campegg] things.
# jeremycherfas Can't argue with that.
# [campegg] And just to be clear, my objections are purely based on my own idiosyncrasies and not reflective of any strongly-held dogma… I'm arguing this just because I enjoy the discussion, not because I'm trying to convince the rest of the world that I'm right and they're wrong.
# jeremycherfas Same, same. I also bring a history of paper-based writing and editing to bear, which colours my views.
# [Paul_Robert_Ll] Some great historical context around heading levels and outlines from Jake here: https://jakearchibald.com/2017/do-we-need-a-new-heading-element/
# [campegg] [Paul_Robert_Ll] that's an interesting article, thanks! I'm certainly not an expert, but I do like the concept of a `h` element
# [Paul_Robert_Ll] I think this article is about that, not sure much has changed since, except the idea of an element being raised about every 5 years.
# [Paul_Robert_Ll] I loved the idea of the outline algorithm and held on to that idea for ages, until I had to accept the pragmatic reality 😞
# redblobgames 😂 <-- I haven't contributed a laughing emoji yet
# [tantek] wow look at this gem I uncovered from 2003, I had COMPLETELY forgotten about "HSF" 😂 https://www.hixie.ch/specs/hsf/hsf
# redblobgames Love is all you need
# [Paul_Robert_Ll] Can anyone point me to the reasoning behind why some Micropub-specific properties use an `mp-` prefix (`mp-slug`, `mp-syndicate-to`, `mp-destination`) and why others do not (`visibility`, `post-status`). What’s the criteria, and expected usage of `mp-` prefixed properties in a Micropub request?
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[aciccarello] One think we've been discussing around Indiekit is whether a slug is a property of a post or a command. Indiekit will generate a slug if no mp-slug was passed.
# [aciccarello] *thing
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# [Paul_Robert_Ll] That aligns my understanding. Been rethinking the implementation in Indiekit, and if `mp-slug` is in the request, a `slug` property is provided to the function that generates post files. In most cases however, that property isn’t needed as it’s been used to name the file, and static site generates read the filename to generate the slug.
# [Paul_Robert_Ll] It gets complicated given intent of property, and separate implementation concerns with Indiekit, too complex to really go over. But this is useful.
# [Paul_Robert_Ll] The other thing I’ve been considering, is not storing the `mp-` values inside the `properties` object but instead save them alongside that object.
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