#dev 2024-03-28
2024-03-28 UTC
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[benatwork] Yesterday I published an indieweb-aware version of a "share to..." / AddThis-like tool. One of the things it does is look for header metadata like `<link rel="share-url" href="https://werd.io/share/?text=
{text}">`. It was a first draft, and I'd like to socialize that idea -- what _should_ it look like to advertise a share intent on a platform using microformats?# [benatwork] (There was an attempt over a decade ago called OExchange, which used data stored in `.well-known`. I'm okay with supporting it, but it never really took off, and I feel like we could do something simpler.)
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# [Paul_Robert_Ll] I was just about to ask about this… have you thought about looking for a `share_target` in a web manifest? https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Manifest/share_target
# [Paul_Robert_Ll] Not sure if that might be misappropriating that property, but it gives the same information that you’d require to create a share link, I believe.
# [benatwork] Ooh. That’s a neat idea. I’ll take a look!
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Loqi A web action is the interface and user experience of taking a specific discrete action, across the web, from one site to another site or application, like a cross-site follow button, or a reply button on a post, which when activated, allows you to reply using your own site instead of the site you are viewing https://indieweb.org/web-actions
# [benatwork] Actually, yeah - I may be able to at least consume the indie-action HTML if it's present and use it as a heuristic
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[tantek] [benatwork] I think we may need both, that is, both the markup to indicate "this is a webaction button that means this particular 'verb'" so a browser or add-on can upgrade its UI to handle what/where the user wants to take that action (e.g. to their personal site), and a discovery mechanism for endpoints like the rel value you propose
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# [tantek] Even iOS has walked back from "Share" in their UI. The former "share" button (square with an arrow emerging from the center and pointing upward out of the square) is now an *Action* button, you know this because when you tap it (e.g. when viewing a photo) and scroll to the bottom of the "sheet", you see a link to "Edit Actions..."
# redblobgames Agreed, Share -> "Find on Page" never made sense as a Share, but it does as an Action
# [tantek] IMO the only companies actually actively (rather than by inertia/habit) promoting "share" as literal text in their UI, are social media companies that merely want to accelerate / refuel the distributed circle jerk of sending around other people's stuff rather than creating original thoughtful work.
# [benatwork] Yeah - I don't disagree. My not-so-secret target audience is news publishers, who still have "share to Twitter" buttons everywhere that absolutely need to die. I recently demonstrated to folks at ProPublica that the open social web was far more engaged than silo networks (through the medium of raising money), and I'm looking for ways for them to embrace both fediverse and indieweb. The philosophical nature of share / take an action /
# [benatwork] whether this needs to exist at all is probably a good conversation to take a step back and have.
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[aciccarello] It has been interesting to see how mastodon's distributed nature has made share/comment UIs need to be more dynamic
# [aciccarello] Someone had set up a "comment on mastodon" feature on their website
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mahboubine I wonder why he didn't just set up webmentions
# superkuh Receiving them is as simple as logging POSTs to an endpoint. But I guess that's not trivial either in most cases.
# superkuh Most people don't have control of their webserver.
# [aciccarello] It seems like that person was focused on supporting mastodon
# superkuh That and curl do the job. I acknowledge that most people want a turnkey setup.
# superkuh Kind of like how writing <html><head><title>webpage</title></head><body><h1>Website here</h1></body></html> is a valid webpage but most people want wordpress.
# superkuh It was glib, "wordpress" here stands for "integrated application that does it all and hides the complexity".
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# mahboubine [tantek]: I agree, it's by no means trivial but the author's setup is far more complicated IMO
# mahboubine still a cool project though
# [tantek] far more complicated than what? Unless you're comparing equivalent user-feature setups, you can't make statements like that. If you're comparing a user feature setup like the author's to *one piece* of alternative plumbing, you are comparing apples and dirt. You can eat apples. You can use dirt to grow an apple tree to bear apples to eventually eat them. You're not going to eat dirt.
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# superkuh Mastodon is irreducibly complex. Webmention is not. I know (now) this simplicity was more of a happy accident rather than the intent. But it still bothers me to see the irreducible complexity seeping in through trying to chase mastodon's user base.
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gRegor And looks like they haven't broken that (yet), so that's nice, haha. https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?text=indieweb+is+awesome
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# btrem The Oatmeal comic suggested not putting comments on your own site, but rather delegate that to social media: https://theoatmeal.com/comics/making_things
# btrem I suppress javascript by default, so I never saw the popover. That is funny in an ironic way.
# btrem Surprising that he can't reach his fans. Apparently, he has an upcoming special on Netflix.
# btrem shrugs
# btrem gRegor: ?? I just disabled noscript, and I didn't see any popover.
# [aciccarello] I think it shows up after a few scrolls
# btrem [aciccarello]: not for me. But maybe Firefox is blocking the popover outside of any javascript.
# [aciccarello] If I recall correctly Matthew Inman knows Survivor show-runner/host Jeff Probst
# [aciccarello] Jeff talked about talking with the creator of "Exploding Kittens" on his podcast
# [aciccarello] I would 100% consider disabling comments/webmentions if I was internet famous and got hundreds of dumb comments
# btrem The bad thing about webmentions is that it raises the bar to comment on someone's work, making it harder to throw out a simple reply (e.g., "I like this"). The good thing about webmentions is that it raises the bar to comment on someone's work, making it harder to throw out a simple reply ("ur page is lame ur lame fu lol hardehar").
# btrem I still haven't implemented webmentions on my site. At some point, I tried and failed, and never went back to work around the problem I was having.
# redblobgames I'm glad my site is small enough that I get a lot of good, interesting comments
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# redblobgames but it's through disqus :-(
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# btrem It's a really funny comic. Inman (sp?) is a really funny comic author. IMO and all that.
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