#dev 2024-04-05

2024-04-05 UTC
bret, geoffo, [tw2113], ttybitnik, AramZS, [Al_Abut], [tantek] and [jeremycherfas] joined the channel
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[Al_Abut]
[Jan_Tuomi] sorry I joined late on Wed’s zoom. We had a pretty healthy discussion about Obsidian just after you left and I was curious about the tagline on your site. Do you use it purely as a CMS for your blogging? I feel like I’m coming up on enough backlogged writing drafts in Markdown that I might want to start organizing them better.
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[tantek]
"AI generated" is too vague / ambiguous to be useful. Different people have different meanings of " AI" and "generated"
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[tantek]
Eg IMO spell checkers, grammar suggestions while typing are fine, whole sentences (or even phrases) written by an algorithm are not
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[Al_Abut]
Even more ambiguous is the use of sanserifs in interfaces to talk about A.I. when there is also someone named Al in the community (just saying)
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[Al_Abut]
Every day I’m reading headlines about “Is Al underperforming?” “Is Al overhyped?” And get a little heart rate boost.
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[Al_Abut]
Like when did my inner demons start trending on Apple News?
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[tantek]
This is a good reason for a user style sheet
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[Jan_Tuomi]
[Al_Abut] Yeah! In my current setup I do all the writing in Obsidian in a `staging/` directory and then move the document to the "public" `archive/` when it's ready. I have a procedure in the automated build process that rebuilds the archive index HTML and invokes `pandoc-rss` on the `archive/` files, effectively publishing a new post.
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[Jan_Tuomi]
It works pretty well, but there are severe limitations, such as not being able to dynamically refer to other pages during build, since there is no database or anything. All links are static. The archive page is an exception of course but it has special logic.
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[Jan_Tuomi]
Here's a screenshot of how it looks: https://jan.systems/files/obsidian_screenshot.png
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[Al_Abut]
Oooh, this is the kind of tactical info I’ve been looking for.
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[Al_Abut]
I’m not actually interested in Obisidian as a PKM, more as a personal CMS like this.
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[Al_Abut]
I use Astro to publish and it’s great for getting things over the line when you’re ready to publish, but not so great for the actual thinking and writing process.
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[Al_Abut]
After a few months of blogging, I feel like a real blogger now because I have more backlogged drafts than I do completed ones 😂 so I’m feeling the urge to tinker with the behind-the-scenes workflow as much as the actual dev and design elements
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[Al_Abut]
If that makes sense?
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[Jan_Tuomi]
Of course 😄
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[Jan_Tuomi]
I like tinkering with this kind of stuff so using a PKM as a CMS hasn't been a problem, even though there are rough edges here and there. It's all just markdown in the end
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[Jan_Tuomi]
Obviously if you want new features you have to build them yourself. Currently I'm looking into building a bookmark feed. Without any special handling I have to manually create a post tagged `[bookmark]` and formatting the content how I like it. This could obviously be automated somewhat
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[tantek]
[Al_Abut] re: "more backlogged drafts than completed" lol yes
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[tantek]
that's quite on topic for main (#indieweb)
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[Al_Abut]
Ha! Ok, didn’t want to discourage the friendly welcoming vibes in that channel with my confessionals.
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[tantek]
I mean yeah, keep the dev confessionals in #indieweb-dev 😂
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[tantek]
Since WebBluetooth is basically DOA (and deservedly so), yet there are plenty of interesting bluetooth use-cases (like local syncing), I wonder if there's room for some use-case specific Web APIs that don't just open up the entirety of a low level hardware abstraction
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[KevinMarks]
Bluetooth is such a rats nest of protocols anyway, it could do with that too
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sknebel
Yeah, Bluetooth is no fun to work with
[campegg], revi, ttybitnik, [pfefferle] and AramZS joined the channel
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capjamesg
How do you prevent people scraping your website?
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capjamesg
I don't want to prevent _all_ scrapers, but wonder if there are mitigations I can take to prevent people from consuming my site whole.
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capjamesg
(i.e. tools indexing for AI)
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capjamesg
(that don't support ai.txt / robots, etc.)
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aaronpk
ask instagram
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capjamesg
Not a helpful answer 😅
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aaronpk
the answer is it's complicated, but instagram has been trying very hard to do it
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[KevinMarks]
look up their IP ranges and serve them a 401 (or a zip bomb)
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superkuh
Take your website offline and only show it to human people in person.
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aaronpk
that's the only way to be sure
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superkuh
You can put pretty much anything in a ToS, even if it's absurd, and it's technically legal (in some regions of the world). So you could have a ToS that does not allow non-human persons.
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capjamesg
My piano index competitor has this in their ToS:
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capjamesg
> No uniform technology standard for recognizing and implementing DNT signals has been finalized. As such, we do not currently respond to DNT browser signals or any other mechanism that automatically communicates your choice not to be tracked online. If a standard for online tracking is adopted that we must follow in the future, we will inform you about that practice in a revised version of this privacy notice .
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IWDiscord
<c​apjamesg>
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superkuh
My site's ToS does not allow anyone under the age of 90.
[Joe_Crawford], geoffo, [qubyte] and [KevinMarks] joined the channel
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[qubyte]
On PKMs… when I added backlinks to my site it got me most of the way there. It’s like having a little of the wiki magic. It made a remarkable difference to the experience for me.
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[snarfed]
what is a PKM
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "PKM" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "PKM is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[KevinMarks]
Personal Knowledge Management (System) maybe?
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capjamesg
[qubyte] Did I show you KGL?
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Loqi
[preview] [capjamesg] knowledge-graph-language: A query language for exploring knowledge graphs.
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[Joao_Paulo_Pes]
[capjamesg] love the generated graph image!!
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[Joao_Paulo_Pes]
capjamesg++
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Loqi
capjamesg has 47 karma in this channel over the last year (190 in all channels)
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gRegor
what is DNT
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Loqi
Do Not Track (also known as DNT) is a technology and policy proposal that enables users to opt out of tracking by websites they do not visit, including analytics services, advertising networks, and social platforms https://indieweb.org/DNT
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gRegor
what is dnt
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Loqi
Do Not Track (also known as DNT) is a technology and policy proposal that enables users to opt out of tracking by websites they do not visit, including analytics services, advertising networks, and social platforms. It ultimately was not widely adopted and as of 2020, Global Privacy Control (GPC) is a successor to DNT https://indieweb.org/DNT
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[Al_Abut]
[qubyte] that’s interesting, that maybe backlinks are like the MVP of wiki-level interconnections. I’ve been procrastinating on adding tags to my posts and think that maybe a “related posts” section might be a better fit.
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[tantek]
Fit into what [KevinMarks]? Talking / building abstract plumbing before talking about a concrete use-case is usually a waste of time or academic at best
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[tantek]
It's also against IndieWeb principles
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[tantek]
What are principles
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Loqi
🗽 The IndieWeb Community is largely based on principles (AKA tenets) such as own your data, make what you need, use what you make, document your stuff, open source your stuff, UX design is more important than protocols, visible data for humans first and machines second, platform agnostic platforms, plurality over monoculture, longevity, and remember to have fun! https://indieweb.org/principles
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[tantek]
Principle 7
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[Al_Abut]
Video question: does anyone have any examples of blog posts that handle vertical video well?
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[Al_Abut]
Just embedded without the usual platform cruft would be great, but I’m also curious about reach goals for Instagram levels of polish, ideally with just plain HTML. Can you do things like auto-playing silently until you click on it to unmute, playing only the video that’s in the viewport, etc, without a bunch of javascript wizardry?
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[Al_Abut]
Did some quick research and all of the blog posts were like a decade out of date.
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gRegor
doubt the "without js" part, but not sure
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[KevinMarks]
Tantek - I meant it could fit in with the graph stuff James was talking about
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capjamesg
I thought that might be the case, but I wasn't sure.
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capjamesg
My tree traversal logic in JS is a mess.
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gRegor
!tell [manton], I think my webmention reply came through and was seen by the target person (I see it in the JSONfeed), but I'm not seeing it in the conversation view or on https://micro.blog/gRegorLove. Post I replied to: https://micro.blog/xxxx/34927662 Happy to file an issue if you prefer.
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Loqi
Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[Al_Abut]
[gRegorLove] I doubted it would work without JS too but it looks like the <video> element has come a long way! Pleasant surprise.
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[Al_Abut]
There’s an MDN page exactly for what I was asking: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Media/Autoplay_guide
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[Al_Abut]
So easy answer: just set the parameters to `autoplay` and `muted` and boom, it doesn’t trip the browser security settings or content blockers while going about 90% of what I had in mind.
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gRegor
Nice!
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gRegor
I was thinking more specifically about playing while in viewport, like scroll to it then it starts
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[Al_Abut]
Yeah, that’s the 10% I’m still going to have to test. Do the browsers do the right thing? Or do people work around it by keeping videos short and looping? The second answer could be overwhelming and busy.
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[Al_Abut]
If the browsers don’t handle it well, then I’ll fall back to clicking to play. Not ideal but lesser of two annoyances.
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gRegor
Is this like one video amidst text, or a stream of multiple video posts?
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[Al_Abut]
I was hoping to experiment with both types!
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[Al_Abut]
And am curious about autoplaying is handled in each case - if the video is already autoplaying while you’re reading along instead of starting from the beginning (not so bad) and if all of the videos on the page autoplay at the same time (yikes)
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gRegor
Cool! I've been tempted at times to start posting on TikTok, but would prefer to have some indie setup first, so at least I could have the canonical video posts on my site
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[Al_Abut]
Great use case
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[Al_Abut]
I’ve been doing the opposite of POSSE, what’s it called again? Where you lean into the ease of publishing ephemeral content on social media and then collate them together on your own site.
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gRegor
what is PESOS
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Loqi
PESOS is an acronym for Publish Elsewhere, Syndicate (to your) Own Site https://indieweb.org/pesos
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[Al_Abut]
Ah yes, I was thinking of something similar: https://indieweb.org/backfill
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[Al_Abut]
Thanks for the boost on Mastodon [Joe_Crawford]! Came across something new - an open version of stories.
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[aciccarello]
I would consider PESOS more realtime, backfill is more of a one-time thing.
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[aciccarello]
I currently am trying to backfill my twitter posts
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[Al_Abut]
Look at these gorgeous indie version of stories: https://muan.co
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[Al_Abut]
(Click on the gray circles)
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[snarfed]
right, they're orthogonal, you can backfill all sorts of things beyond just your posts etc
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[Al_Abut]
What’s the etiquette of video in rss feeds? Taboo because it’s a big download and you should have a link to your site instead? Or totally fine and it just plays inline.
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[Al_Abut]
I’ve been using Feedly since late last year and am at about 100 feeds, haven’t seen a single video in there yet.
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[Al_Abut]
And I know we’ve got broadcast-level experience in here like [aaronpk]
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[snarfed]
I don't know that there's much etiquette. regardless of where you "read" the post, if you watch the video, you'll download or stream it over the network
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[Al_Abut]
Fair points.
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[tantek]
I think one difference is that backfill should just go on your permalinks & archives, and maybe webmentions for folks to dedupe/update any silo mentions they got from you with indieweb permalinks, but not your feeds
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[Al_Abut]
Sounds like a good strategy. Especially on my mind lately because I logged into my ancient Blogger account to find all of my old posts sitting there, just begging to be imported into my new Astro setup. Wouldn’t want any of that to actually trip the RSS wires though.
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[tantek]
PESOS posts should go to your feeds
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[Al_Abut]
That’s been like half my posts this year, while I was still on the weekly blogging train 😂
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[Al_Abut]
Slightly more than half: