#dev 2024-06-20
2024-06-20 UTC
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gRegor Maybe not, looks like an iframe: https://indieweb.org/2019/state-of-the-indieweb
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superkuh From the noscript part of the URL https://archive.org/embed/indieweb-summit-2019-state-of-the-indieweb which was the iframe.
# superkuh Looks like a bog standard html5 video.
# superkuh And if you want a no JS way to switch between videos use CSS
{display: none;} and :target {display: inline-block;} with anchors.{{lifeofpablo}}, [lifeofpablo], jeremycherfas, geoffo, barnaby, chadsix, [jeremycherfas], [Scout], morganwebdev, barnabywalters, nertzy, gRegorLove_, AramZS and gRegorLove__ joined the channel
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[tantek] [snarfed] btw you may be interested in the current SWICG call on data portability discussing details of https://swicg.github.io/activitypub-data-portability/lola.html (could impact Bridgy Fed?)
# [tantek] for the record, W3C calendar event (with meeting details) https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/d83b5200-20aa-49c3-a1d0-851392df2f53/
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[bneil] So currently looking for work. I realize this may not be the place, but I love the indieweb, webrings, activitypub, scuttlebutt, etc. Does anyone here know of folks that work in the fediverse space that are hiring, or adjacent worlds? I get that most of the https://fediverse.party/. is open source tech and thats wonderful, just would be fun to work on those things full time rather than in the dead of night. So looking for companies or coops
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# [bneil] [snarfed] thanks for that, currently going down the list at http://landscape.cncf.io to find fun projects. but will check out ghost. omg.lol needs to hire
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# [tantek] [snarfed] excellent! Glad to hear it. Today's SWICG Data Portability TF minutes if you're curious: https://www.w3.org/wiki/SocialCG/2024-06-20
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[KevinMarks] Is it me or does this sound like a bad way to do this compared to an h-card or rel=me links?
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# jimwins Very move-fast-and-break-things vibe in the that discussion. Sure, just plop something into a fediverse: namespace with documentation to come.
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# jimwins It does seem kind of strange that OpenGraph didn't have a top-level 'creator' label aside from site_name.
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Loqi rel-author is a microformat for linking a post to the URL representing its author https://indieweb.org/rel%3Dauthor
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# jimwins Yeah, it's just bad. They're creating a specific tag for the Mastodon/ActivityPub username, and haven't done anything to solve the problem of verifying that the username listed is really associated with the content except for trusting it when it comes from specific websites configured per-Mastodon-instance.
# jimwins Unless I'm really misreading the whole thing, it is shockingly bad and seems driven by the very specific use case that they're going to have to revisit when they realize how dumb and limited what they did is.
# jimwins I guess the fact that PR is labeled as "ui" is a signal about what was important about it.
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# [tantek] [KevinMarks], aaronpk, jimwins, for your review: https://indieweb.org/rel-author#How_to
# jimwins I can understand not wanting to go down the whole semantic web / RDF / whatever rabbit hole, but this is just profoundly lazy. At least make a half-gesture towards OpenGraph and make it be article:author:fediverse or something instead of inventing some new top-level thing.
# jimwins [tantek] Maybe the page should point to how someone might resolve that the rel="author" assertion is true, or at least that it's an issue?
# [tantek] I mean I should probably link to /authorship which goes into that
# jimwins If you have a page that asserts that the author is someone, I think you'd want some mechanism so that an author could verify that, or disavow that. Mastodon's solution is just to trust that if a page asserts it's authored by the specified fediverse:creator (which is a Fediverse account name) and they trust the site that page is on, they'll display the authorship.
# Loqi authorship is how to indicate who the author is for a post, and an algorithm that determines the author of a post https://indieweb.org/authorship
# jimwins Yeah, and their model of each instance building their own list of trusted publishers is.. not great.
# jimwins It's a really hard problem that they just sort of said "Leeroy Jenkins!" and did whatever made it so that they can start showing preview cards for articles on Wired or whatever.
# jimwins aaronpk: Mastodon has a page of "Trending links" but it will only include links if the instance admin has said that links from that site are trustworthy, or at least that's how I understand it. (Not a Masto instance admin.)
# jimwins I assume, behind the scenes, there's probably a page for admins that says "here's some publishers you could approve so their links start showing up as trending links".
# jimwins Which for an instance like mastodon.social, sure. But for all those fediverse instances running with part-time, volunteer admins? Now they've tied whether preview cards can link to your Mastodon profile to whether your admin is on top of managing that list of approved publishers for trending links.
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# jimwins I think they're trying to solve for the "problem" of journalists not being on Mastodon/Fediverse, and just sort of flailing around to do it.
# jimwins Meanwhile, media just will have icons/links for three different Meta accounts and all the journalists will just still be on Twitter or maybe moved over to Blue Sky.
# [tantek] jimwins, it's not great but I added https://indieweb.org/rel-author#How_can_I_verify_the_author
# jimwins Yeah, back towards indieweb-dev space, I think what would have been a mf2-friendly way to specify this is maybe h-card u-url acct:user@mastodon.social or something along those lines.
# jimwins But how do I specify that a particular URL associated with me is an account on the Fediverse?
# jimwins The difference between rel=author (which would be 'https://trainedmonkey.com' for me) and Mastodon's new fediverse:creator which would be 'jimw@mefi.social'. On trainedmonkey.com, I could create an h-card with a u-url that pointed at https://mefi.social/@jimw but there's nothing to indicate that's a Fediverse identity (actor?). There's no u-email equivalent for Mastodon/Fediverse which is what fediverse:creator is trying to be, I
# jimwins I think (could be wrong) that acct:jimw@mefi.social would be similar to mailto:jimw@trainedmonkey.com and then they're both just a u-url.
# jimwins Right, but if a Mastodon client, say, is following a rel="author" link, they only way they could know that is a Mastodon account so they can show a "Follow" button is to check every rel="me" link to see if it is a Mastodon server.
# [tantek] jimwins, my goal is to improve the https://indieweb.org/rel-author page so someone can reply to that Mastodon PR/issue with, "Please use a standard link rel=author instead of making up a new meta tag"
# jimwins What happens if I have more than one <link rel="author" href="...">. Does that represent multiple authors?
# jimwins what is rel-self
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "rel-self" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "rel-self is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# jimwins So I think a goal would be for Mastodon to see <link rel="author" href="https://trainedmonkey.com/">, load that page to parse out the microformats to find the h-card that says "this is my Mastodon/Fediverse handle" but right now there's no way to specify that in h-card. What they've implemented is <link rel="fediverse:creator" content="..."> which just gets them that handle directly (and they use WebFinger to figure out my name a
# jimwins But the rel="me" is just a URL, how can it tell that is a Mastodon/Fediverse handle?
# [tantek] for the record, e.g. IndieWebify finds your Mastodon profile: https://indiewebify.me/validate-rel-me/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftrainedmonkey.com%2F
# jimwins It finds that the URLs https://mefi.social/@jimw and https://trainedmonkey.com/ serve up web pages that have mutual rel=me links, it doesn't know that one is a Mastodon/Fediverse presence.
# jimwins Now if I could had rel="me" href="acct:jimw@mefi.social", it could know what it was dealing with. and whatever the URL scheme for a blue sky identity looks like.
# jimwins well, whatever URI scheme should or could exist for such a thing. (I just see that Mastodon uses acct: internally for some of this.)
# [tantek] I think we should consider a solution to this that is also aligned with https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/17030
# jimwins (rel="self" is from https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc4287.html. Atom, my old friend!)
# jimwins well, it's what get blame/credit for it on https://www.iana.org/assignments/link-relations/link-relations.xhtml
# jimwins the WebSub references for it eventually lead to the Atom spec, too.
# jimwins looks like in WebSub, self is supposed to point to a feed.
# jimwins ok, that makes sense
# jimwins ok, from the atom spec: The value "self" signifies that the IRI in the value of the href attribute identifies a resource equivalent to the containing element.
# jimwins yeah, the examples from the WebSub spec kind of imply that it's a way to say 'this is the URL for this resource in this format without having to send an Accept: header'
# [tantek] I'm also not beholden to WebSub either, I supported it at the time because it seemed to be what other folks needed for various purposes. Implementer interest in WebSub seems to have not gone very far in the past 5+ years though, and before that I think maybe aaronpk and cweiske developed their own hubs?
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aaronpk well there's at least some code there https://github.com/aaronpk/Aperture/blob/main/aperture/app/Http/Controllers/WebSubReceiverController.php
# gRegor The feed-level rel-self and rel-hub in the Atom is for WebSub. https://gregorlove.com/stream/feed.atom
# [tantek] aaronpk, issue still open? https://github.com/aaronpk/Aperture/issues/18
# [KevinMarks] I think WebSub picked up the Atom rel=self because it was initially (as PuSH) designed with Atom feeds in mind, so it needed the link back to the Web version
# [KevinMarks] Mastodon had a WebSub implementation before adopting AP
# aaronpk There's a note about rel=self for migrations https://www.w3.org/TR/websub/#subscription-migration
# [KevinMarks] On the replacing webfinger topic, I still like this follow your nose suggestion https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/AccountDiscovery#Brainstorming