#dev 2024-09-20

2024-09-20 UTC
gRegorLove_, [Joe_Crawford], geoffo, barnaby, ttybitnik, cuibonobo1, magni, AramZS and [qubyte] joined the channel
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[mattl] Does anyone have a high level document covering the tools/architecture of their website?
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[tantek] what is a colophon?
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Loqi A colophon is a page or section (typically in a footer) of a site that describes how the site is made, with what tools, supporting what technologies, and often published on personal sites at a top level /colophon page https://indieweb.org/colophon
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[tantek] ^ examples there [mattl]
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sebbu I don't have one, but i either have scripts I did on my own from scratch with no dependencies, or existing stuff i didn't modify (but might have use specific themes/plugins, and configured)
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sebbu (and none of that is indexed or linked together)
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[mattl] Plone has/had an explicit colophon URL. I'd forgotten the term.
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pcarrier [mattl]: https://nothing.pcarrier.com/posts/meta/ complete with code
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pcarrier [edit] [mattl]: https://nothing.pcarrier.com/posts/meta/ complete with code
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pcarrier Main site is simpler but I got into details of the platform confjg. https://xmit.dev/posts/pcarrier-com/
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pcarrier [edit] Main site is simpler but I got into details of the platform confjg. https://xmit.dev/posts/pcarrier-com/
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[snarfed] yeah lots of indieweb examples. mine is https://snarfed.org/about
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[qubyte] Wooo colophon times! https://qubyte.codes/colophon
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catgirlin.space mmm, maybe i should write one for my website…
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[qubyte] I probably should have just linked https://indieweb.org/colophon
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[qubyte] I love reading them.
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[qubyte] Ah, it was already linked. My bad.
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[mattl] These are great but does anyone have anything more like... "Here's how I get my posts from http://micro.blog to my personal website?" etc?
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[mattl] I feel like I'm missing something.
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[qubyte] Mine does that. See the bottom (micropub clients / server)
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[qubyte] It’s a little dry I guess.
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gRegor As a one-time export, [mattl], or like PESOS?
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gRegor I do the syndicate-to mb via Atom feed route, not sure about PESOS
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[mattl] My personal site https://mat.tl has all my self hosted stuff from the last 30 years or so. I want to use WordPress and http://micro.blog and other new and exciting things, so I put those on subdomains: https://blog.mat.tl https://micro.mat.tl etc. I get the feeling that's not quite how I'm "supposed" to do things?
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Loqi [preview] Dr. Matt Lee
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[mattl] I control my own WordPress install but it's on WPEngine.
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[mattl] What I don't want is a homepage full of blog posts
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[mattl] But I'd be fine with /blog being full of blog posts.
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[qubyte] So, do you mean you syndicate from there and other places all to one singular place? Or do you mean these are all just separate things?
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[mattl] Yeah, they're all basically separate right now. Ideally I'd use one tool, probably http://micro.blog to publish everything that's not the homepage.
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gRegor This is the method I use: https://indieweb.org/Micro.blog#How_to_syndicate_to regardless of what posts appear where, if you want to set up a feed of just the posts you want to syndicate, you can put that feed in micro.blog
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gRegor For example, my feed excludes unlisted posts and replies
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[qubyte] I would also take the atom route (I use atom to power various bits and pieces).
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[qubyte] (of JSON feed also looks good for this)
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gRegor When I'm replying to a m.b post, that gets into m.b. by me sending a webmention
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gRegor I don't think you strictly need a subdomain, but maybe if that helps keep the posts types and their feed separate for you, could work!
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[mattl] from WordPress or something else?
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gRegor Hm?
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[mattl] I'm happy to do whatever I need. Right now I'm basically looking for a solution to all of this so I can actually get on on and write stuff. Right now I don't write stuff because there's nowhere for anyone who doesn't know how to find my various subdomains to find stuff.
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[mattl] https://gregorlove.com/2024/09/my-friend-catherine/ vs https://gregorlove.com/2024/07/do-you-still-worry-about-covid/ -- are those published using the same software?
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gRegor I think a WP blog, whatever domain/subdomain it's hosted at, should work pretty well for that out of the box, since it has RSS/Atom feeds
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Loqi [preview] [gRegor Morrill] My friend Catherine is publishing her first book of poetry on Monday, September 16! Barely a Whisper: Poems from the Heart of a Woman Re-becoming. Please check it out!
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gRegor Yeah, I use ProcessWire CMS and most of my feeds are generated by converting mf2, using /granary
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gRegor Let me find the feed I have put into mb
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[mattl] what is processwire
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Loqi ProcessWire is an open source PHP content management system/content management framework https://indieweb.org/ProcessWire
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[qubyte] If discovery is an issue, could a quick and easy solution be a top page on your domain which links out to each thing? Then they can all stay their own things and you can get on with writing in whichever suits the content.
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[qubyte] Maybe I’m misunderstanding.
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gRegor This is the feed I have put into m.b. As you can see when you open, it's a redirect to the hosted granary service that converts my mf2 to Atom https://gregorlove.com/stream/feed.atom
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gRegor That's just my choice for implementation though, doesn't matter how the feed is created. A WordPress RSS/Atom feed should be fine
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[mattl] Aha... and what is superfeedr?
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gRegor Nerd sniping me into blogging about this, heh. I've been needing to write more
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[mattl] Sorry not sorry 😉
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gRegor Also optional, websub hub
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gRegor what is superfeedr
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Loqi Superfeedr provides a variety of ways to access real-time feed updates, including a popular PubSubHubbub-0.4 compliant hub https://indieweb.org/Superfeedr
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Loqi [snarfed] has 49 karma in this channel over the last year (98 in all channels)
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gRegor Granary *is* super nice for this, though, I love being able to write mf2 and convert it to Atom. [snarfed]++
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[mattl] So you write stuff in Processwire and categorized it somehow as either a note or a blog post... and then superfeedr takes your feed/feeds and makes one feed that granary uses?
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[mattl] [snarfed]++
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Loqi [snarfed] has 50 karma in this channel over the last year (99 in all channels)
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gRegor nope, superfeedr isn't involved in the process. You can forget about it for now :)
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gRegor If you visit https://granary.io/, select microformats, select input=html, output=Atom, then enter URL https://gregorlove.com/stream/, that's the resulting Atom feed
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[mattl] lol hang on, i just signed up for superfeedr 😕
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gRegor no sign up on granary at least, haha
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[snarfed] careful, superfeeder is on maintenance mode, at best
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gRegor I'm just explaining it as a demo of what I do, though. If you have a WP blog, you have an RSS and Atom feed already I think
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[mattl] yeah, the site took *a while* to load an image.
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[mattl] yeah, i have an RSS and an Atom feed from both http://blog.mat.tl and from http://micro.mat.tl
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[snarfed] not that I have a good alternative to recommend, https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/issues/550#issuecomment-1841605025
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Loqi [preview] [snarfed] Superfeedr is unreliable these days, and I'm not confident in its future. Looking into alternatives and their pricing. Many charge per feed, which I don't think is sustainable for BF. Some charge per notification, which is better. IFTTT and Botize ar...
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[qubyte] In lieu of websub, you might be able to dispatch webhooks to trigger stuff to get your feeds.
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gRegor I'm not even sure my site is pinging superfeedr these days, haven't tested on https://websub.rocks/ in a while. Either way, my posts show up pretty quickly in m.b
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[qubyte] (if polling isn’t good enough)
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[mattl] gRegor: how do you write a new note? that's just in processwire?
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gRegor Yep, I have a few different templates for different posts. Then https://gregorlove.com/stream/ is a custom page of everything public, excluding unlisted posts and reply posts
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[mattl] brb installing processwire.
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gRegor lol, not sure I recommend that. I mean I like it, but it's more of a framework to build various types of sites out of.
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gRegor I do prefer it for that customizability and less maintenance than WP, but it's a bit more work up front, maybe
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gRegor I think your mvp is plug in your micro.mat.tl feed into micro.blog
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[mattl] I like how few files it is, and maybe this will actually get me to write stuff.
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[mattl] http://micro.mat.tl feed is generated by http://micro.blog
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gRegor I really like PW because it's entirely custom fields and templates. So I can set up fields for title, body, dt-published, etc. then group them as needed in templates like "note", "article", "photo", etc. Each template has its own file and it is mostly straightforward PHP, with some PW API calls.
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gRegor OH, so you have a paid m.b account and you're posting directly to it? I misunderstood.
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gRegor I'm using a free m.b account, so I just have micro.blog/gregorlove and my posts go into it via the feed. Different process.
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gRegor Need to step away for a bit
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[mattl] sounds good. I got processwire installed.
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[mattl] i got my homepage template to look just like my old website 🙂
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[mattl] got my omg.lol to processwire template pipeline working for my homepage.
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catgirlin.space i wrote a colophon now :3 https://catgirlin.space/colophon/
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capjamesg[d] catgirlin_space0[d]++
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Loqi catgirlin_space0[d] has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (4 in all channels)
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[qubyte] Nice!
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[qubyte] And wow. Interesting stack!
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catgirlin.space hehe, it is uh. quite the setup.
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[qubyte] Responsive webmention receiver too. Which reminds me, I need to just allow all likes. At the moment I have to moderate all mentions.
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catgirlin.space oh i should've mentioned on that page that my receiver is just webmention.io, but with a webhook
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[qubyte] It’s ok, I read/liked this one (where you say that). Nevertheless, quick turnaround. https://catgirlin.space/activity/111/
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Loqi [preview] [rosalina saige] building a new website (again)
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catgirlin.space ah, i should probably update that post to say its a bit outdated lol (its mostly the same still, just sqlite now)
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gRegor wow, that was fast [mattl]++
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Loqi [mattl] has 4 karma in this channel over the last year (17 in all channels)
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[qubyte] That’s kind of why I put my colophon together. a) I needed _one_ place to write and update about gubbins behind the scenes, and b) half of all my posts were all about the site itself, and I needed to encourage myself to write about something else.
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gRegor Happy to answer any PW questions. Maybe on a virtual HWC sometime if that's easier to talk through and show things
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gRegor Pretty good, active support forum too: https://processwire.com/talk/
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[mattl] i'd love to know one thing... are fields plain text or how do i render say a textarea into HTML.
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[mattl] https://mat.tl/now/ as you can see now that's just plain text.
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Loqi [preview] Dr. Matt Lee
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gRegor There is a textarea field type, which by default is multi line plaintext. Under the settings > input (I think... maybe it's "formatting") you can select a TinyMCE editor if you want WYSIWYG
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[mattl] i think i'd rather write plain text but i'd love to render it as HTML..
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[mattl] even if I wrote <ul>...</ul> in that field, it just shows me the markup.
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gRegor It's the Settings > Details tab, then "Inputfield Type"
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gRegor I have CKEditor, but I think that's from an older install, they might have switched to TinyMCE
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gRegor Like Markdown? There's probably a module for that, I haven't experimented with that
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gRegor https://processwire.com/search/?q=markdown&t=Modules via search on https://processwire.com/modules/
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gRegor Probably the TextFormatter one, but no personal experience with it
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[mattl] what do you have in your template to output one of those fields?
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[mattl] `<?php echo $page->body; ?>` is what I have right now and I guess I need something more
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gRegor Oh, wait, also check the Content Type on the details tab for the field https://processwire.com/docs/fields/textarea-fieldtype/#content-type
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gRegor I have, Text Formatters: blank, Content Type: Unknown/text
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[mattl] oh i got it!
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[mattl] gRegor: this is awesome stuff.
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gRegor Nice, site looks good!
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gRegor And yeah, generally that `echo $page->body` is the format I use. There are some rare edge cases where if you need to get the value without TextFormatters, `$page->getUnformatted('field_name')` works.
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gRegor That's usually with a date field or something, though, like if you want to get the unix timestamp instead of the formatted date.
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[mattl] perhaps we can chat next week about the microblogging/blogging parts of your site and how you're getting a feed out of them
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gRegor Sure
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[mattl] Thank you 🙂
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gRegor Some of these are older, but should still generally apply for the PW building blocks. They've been good about not breaking things in updates usually. https://pwtuts.com/
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gRegor Is anyone aware of a way to add an .ics file for a single event to Google Calendar via a link? I know the method on /gcal where you put all the information in query parameters, but would like to avoid that if possible.
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gRegor I think the only other option is this subscribe option for a webcal, https://til.simonwillison.net/ics/google-calendar-ics-subscribe-link
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gRegor Already generating an individual .ics file for the event, so would like to re-use that if possible. I could use the susbscribe link, but that feels messy. Creates a whole separate calendar in gcal. Overkill for single events.
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gRegor gcal also doesn't show a title for it, just the webcal:// URL
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gRegor Eh, will probably have to do the query parameters. Adding special links for gcal and outlook to this project and both have custom formats for query parameters :(
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gRegor If only there was some standard for representing calendar information
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sebbu [tantek], what are the differences between a colophon and a masthead ?
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sebbu :D
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jimw The way I would distinguish them is that the masthead is about the people involved in producing a publication, the colophon is about the company and technologies involved.