#dev 2024-11-02

2024-11-02 UTC
#
[snarfed] [tantek] yeah inconsistent reply visibility is infamous in the fediverse
#
[snarfed] and expected delivery is underspecified in AP
#
[snarfed] audience targeting in AS2 is something, and related, but not the same thing
#
[snarfed] afaik more mature fediverse servers have all sorts of heuristics to "fill in" replies, eg using a post's `replies` collection, which has some support in the fediverse, but only some
#
[snarfed] you're right that BF's reply delivery is on the conservative side. delivering all replies to all followers and all of the OP's followers would be a big increase in load, esp since I'd need to fetch (and page through) every OP's followers collection every time 😕
#
[snarfed] I don't really know the heuristics that other implementations use, but I'd love to learn
#
[tantek] Ok yeah I was worried that might be a big load increase too
#
[tantek] This just convinces me more that salmentions is the way to propagate replies to replies
#
[tantek] Back up the chain
#
aaronpk "I'd need to fetch every OP's followers collection" also isn't a very privacy friendly way to do it. Not from bridgy's point of view, but as a protocol
#
[snarfed] I guess? hard to follow the privacy nuances for public collections
#
[snarfed] and esp for uses like this where they're not exposed to any humans, it's purely for routing
#
aaronpk If everything is public it's fine, but everything is not public on mastodon, and I also find myself leaning more and more into the idea that public as the default is not sustainable
#
[snarfed] definitely, agreed
#
[tantek] [snarfed] ok to back off the superset/union proposal then maybe we should distribute replies like top level posts, to every instance that normal posts would go to and let the instances figure things out?
#
[tantek] At least that way my own followers would see the fully threaded reply chain
Kupietz joined the channel
#
Kupietz Hey don't know if anyone's around or feels like looking at something in the middle of the night, but I'm just gonna leave this here. For some reason, https://monocle.p3k.io/preview?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmichaelkupietz.com%2F is not picking up the .u-url links on my front page, it's showing the titles but no article links. Anyone have any idea why?
#
Kupietz If someone sees this tomorrow and wants to glance at it, the help would be much appreciated
[schmarty] joined the channel
#
capjamesg[d] I enjoyed this free interactive Regex course: https://regexlearn.com/
#
capjamesg[d] [edit] I enjoyed this free interactive Regex course: https://regexlearn.com/
#
[tantek] Worth capturing?
#
[tantek] What is regex
#
Loqi A regular expression is a sequence of characters used to match, extract, and/or replace patterns in text, used in many IndieWeb implementations and libraries, such as autolinkers https://indieweb.org/regex
#
capjamesg[d] Yes! Will add.
trwnh, GuestZero_, rolle and karjala joined the channel
#
[snarfed] [tantek] understood. I think this is https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/issues/1218 ?
#
Loqi [preview] [mackuba] #1218 ATProto => AP: deliver replies to more upstream inboxes?
#
[tantek] [snarfed] close but not exactly. I think the case I’m talking about is: when BF is asked to federate a reply to a Fediverse post (BF is already figuring this out), then in addition to federating to the instance of the in-reply-to, federate the reply to all my followers and let their instances sort it out
#
[tantek] This is a web->wm->BF->AP/fedi use-case in particular and thus I think worth its own issue bc I believe it's simpler than the AT-AP bridging scenario
#
[tantek] [snarfed] separately, similar to your recent #microformats question, is there a way to markup part of a post so BF does NOT include it in the content sent to AP/fedi? E.g. I could "just" use markup ignored by Mastodon (e.g. iframes) for such "don't federate this part" content, however wondering if you've implemented a -bf- property for BF to ignore inside
#
[tantek] (Context: I am thinking of displaying replies and reply threads to my posts as iframe embeds of those reply posts, knowing that even if I send an update webmention to BF, that the destinations will ignore the iframes)
#
[tantek] (Some related higher level use-case brainstorming in #indieweb, without mentioning specific plumbing / markup)
sebbu joined the channel
#
[tantek] Moving here from #indieweb: if you're using iframes to embed an /embed of someone else's post, you should put the summary (property? elided content?) of that post as plain text in the 'title' attribute on the iframe. See: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Accessibility/Understanding_WCAG/Text_labels_and_names#use_title_attribute_to_describe_iframe_content
lazcorp, [morganm], [KevinMarks], confusedalex and barnaby joined the channel
#
[tantek] Does lynx support a media type or media selector for its "text only" mode that I could target with an @media rule and then add some generated text to any iframes that help lynx users decide to view them or not?
barnaby, gRegor and confusedalex joined the channel
#
confusedalex hi there, I want to add my blog to the indieweb webring, but when I try to login I get the following error:
#
confusedalex invalid_authorization_endpoint The authorization server of the returned profile URL did not match the initial authorization server
#
confusedalex Does any of you have an idea why this is happening?
#
gRegor confusedalex, What's the domain you're signing in with? cc [schmarty] who maintains the webring too
rrix joined the channel
#
confusedalex https://confusedalex.dev is the domain. I then get an verification email and verify myself, but when I get redirect to the webring I get the error
#
gRegor Hm, I'm less familiar with the email flow, I'll have to refresh myself on the IndieAuth spec
#
gRegor what is indieweb webring
#
Loqi 🕸💍 Indiewebring is a webring across IndieWeb sites and blogs, part of the great rebirth of of webrings powered by #IndieWeb technology that made 2018 the year of the webring https://indieweb.org/indieweb_webring
#
confusedalex I have also set up a link to my github and can use it to authenticate as well
#
gRegor This may not be likely, but is there any chance the returned domain after you verify is slightly different, like you enter it without www and it returns with www (or vice versa?)
#
gRegor Or https vs http
#
gRegor I think this is the step that's causing the error https://indieauth.spec.indieweb.org/#authorization-server-confirmation, if the entered domain and the returned one don't match exactly, it's looking for an authorization_endpoint on your site, which it looks like you're not advertising currently (which should be OK)
#
gRegor That might be the extent of debugging I can help with. Check back to see what [schmarty] or others might have though!
#
confusedalex Thanks for you help gRegor!
Kupietz joined the channel
#
Kupietz Hey, still looking at why https://monocle.p3k.io/preview?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmichaelkupietz.com%2F is correctly showing my article titles but not links. Could it be because the links are all relative in the page?
#
Kupietz LOL, didn't mean to come off like I'm demanding help. Any takers?
#
Kupietz I've got it so all my sites archive pages parse correctly, just not that front page.
#
gRegor From the webring source code, it looks like the expected authorization endpoint for RelMeAuth is https://indielogin.com/auth
#
gRegor Kupietz, I think the displayed published date usually has the permalink there. It looks like your dt-published is parsing as `Updated Oct 7, 2024` so it's probably having an issue displaying that dt-published
#
gRegor Ideally it should be something like `<time datetime="2024-10-07" class="dt-published">October 7, 2024</time>`
#
gRegor I'm not sure if Monocle displays content if it's just a p-summary
#
gRegor p-summary does seem correct for the summaries on your homepage, though
#
gRegor This is example markup I'd expect for a summary post like that. https://php.microformats.io/?id=20241102212522376
#
gRegor Oops, forgot the title with p-name. Add that :)
#
Kupietz thanks gregor. D'oh! "Updated" in the field. Yeah, things are a little tricky because that hero got complicated under the hood, every time I change something there's a whole cascade of CSS to change. But that's a good lead. Thanks.
#
Kupietz sp. gRegor
#
Kupietz gRegor++
#
Loqi gRegor has 29 karma in this channel over the last year (140 in all channels)
#
gRegor The "updated" could still be in the text content inside the <time> element. The mf2 parser will take what's in the `datetime` attribute.
#
Kupietz Ok, cool.
#
confusedalex I got it working! I had to add my indieauth provider in the head of my website. I don't really know why I had to do this but it works now haha :)
#
Kupietz You know what's weird. Archive page feeds show the url correctly, with no date listed at all. https://monocle.p3k.io/preview?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmichaelkupietz.com%2Fauthor%2Fmike-kupietz%2F
#
gRegor Kupietz, That one has no dt-published properties
#
gRegor Under the hood Monocle is using Xray, so that can be helpful too. https://xray.p3k.io/parse?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmichaelkupietz.com%2Fauthor%2Fmike-kupietz%2F&pretty=true
#
gRegor https://xray.p3k.io/
#
gRegor confusedalex, nice!
#
Kupietz Right. I accidentally left that out. But the feed displays the correct URLs. Ok, now the homepage is displaying the timestamp linked to the URL, but that's a little weird... why would clicking on the time be a link to the post, instead of the title, or, better, just actually display the URL, like the archive page feeds do?
#
gRegor Linking published dates is a common pattern for permalinks
#
gRegor There's probably some logic in the code like, if there's a parsed dt-published, format it and show it with a link to the u-url, otherwise show a link to the u-url.
#
gRegor That's why dates in mf2 should be ISO 8601 formatted
#
gRegor So the homepage wasn't showing a link because the date formatting failed. The archive page shows just the link because no dt-published
#
gRegor Found an issue to support p-summary only for the content in Monocle btw https://github.com/aaronpk/Monocle/issues/50
#
Loqi [preview] [lionirdeadman] #50 Monocle should support p-summary in h-entry
#
Kupietz Right you are. I had a dt-published class, so it didn't show the URL. But the whole tag wasn't formatted right, so it didn't show the date, either. That's sort of an odd way of working, gonna file an issue
#
Kupietz Hokey. https://github.com/aaronpk/Monocle/issues/60 Hmmm. Decisions, decisions, decisions. I assume anyone using this expects the date to be the link in the feed output, so I'm going to continue to have the dt-published formatted right instead of removing the formatting. It's nonintuitive behavior to me personally, though.
#
Loqi [preview] [kupietools] #60 dt-published class present but time tag formatted wrong prevents u-url from displaying.
gRegorLove_ joined the channel
#
gRegor Added your HTML to #50 as another example of p-summary only
#
gRegor Agreed on 60, should fallback to show the link at least
#
gRegor Hm, removing which formatting in dt-published?
#
gRegor You can still display a human-friendly date in whatever format you'd like
#
gRegor The `datetime` attribute is what needs to be ISO 8601 though
#
[snarfed] [tantek] you might be interested in https://github.com/snarfed/bridgy-fed/issues/667
#
Loqi [preview] [snarfed] #667 Web: consider adopting Bridgy classic's custom text mf2 property?
#
[snarfed] otherwise, no way to exclude a specific element yet, I'd defer to https://github.com/microformats/microformats2-parsing/issues/79
#
Loqi [preview] [snarfed] #79 Omit elements with role=presentation from parsed values
#
[tantek] Indeed. KeepBridgyFedSimple++
#
Loqi KeepBridgyFedSimple has 1 karma over the last year
#
[tantek] I'll look into if there's an ARIA role like "external-content" that we could use for this use-case/semantic
#
Kupietz gRegor, I was just dithering over whether I wanted to remove the published date entirely so that the URL would show instead. I decided to keep it.
#
gRegor Ahh, gotcha. Yeah I definitely recommend having it.
#
Kupietz Now, I'm having one of those quintessential wordpress moments where I changed ever single instance I can find of displaying the date in both the parent and child themes to use the correct dt-published formatting, cleared caches and... still displaying it the way the theme author wanted it. Grrrrrrr.
#
gRegor Oh noo. My WP sympathies :/
#
Kupietz Sometimes PHP reminds me of being in highschool, where you'd get a textbook, and on top of p. 67, someone has written "turn to page 133". So you turn to p. 133 and on top it says "turn to page 22"...
#
Kupietz I'm gonna need another cup of coffee
#
Kupietz Ah, the good old wp_kses() function. Good old wordpress, "fixing" my code :facepalm:
#
Kupietz Alright, dates are tagged and displaying correctly in the archive page feeds. N.B. The feed reader understands the full ISO date, like `datetime="2024-10-31T06:54:58+00:00"`
#
Kupietz I had only the yyyy-mm-dd on the front page and it was fine with that too.
#
gRegor yep! whatever specificity on the time portion is appropriate should work
#
gRegor Kupietz++
#
Loqi Kupietz has 3 karma in this channel over the last year (6 in all channels)
gRegorLove_ joined the channel