#dev 2025-01-22

2025-01-22 UTC
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[tantek] Nah, flat (no hierarchy by default) works fine for Wikipedia, and note, it's doubtful your (or anyone's) personal indieweb site requires more complexity than Wikipedia.
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aaronpk but overengineering is so fun!
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[tantek] 😂
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aaronpk and fun is one of the indieweb principles
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aaronpk so by all means
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[tantek] and this is why we have so many folks here building their own SSG, CMS, etc. 😄
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carrvo[d] Like, overengineering is bad for business but can sometime be useful...in those super rare never-in-your-lifetime scenarios. And very tempting.
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GWG I always have fun talking with you all.
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btrem I just added @remy/webmention to my website project, and was promptly greeted with scary deprecation and security warnings. Does anyone here use that module? Are you concerned?
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[tantek] huh, probably worth filing an issue on it
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btrem I looked at the issues, and it wasn't brought up. Which surprised me not a little.
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doesnm About Bluesky: it's totally look like Solid but more... user-friendly? I don't need bsky services to fetch records from my pds
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doesnm *ATProto
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[tantek] more developer friendly too
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vinceaggrippino I've been reading about Webmention. It looks like only the `source` and `target` are provided in the request parameters, but you get a lot more information in the response from webmention .io. Is .io parsing the entire _source_ page using the Microformats classes and storing it all in its database?
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capjamesg[d] I believe so, yes!
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aaronpk Yep exactly
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vinceaggrippino capjamesg++ aaronpk++ Thank you. I thought it'd be impractical to store the all the data of every page that receives a webmention using .io as its endpoint, but I guess it's not a problem. I still have a lot to learn 😅
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Loqi capjamesg has 45 karma in this channel over the last year (214 in all channels)
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vinceaggrippino It doesn't work to give two people karma in one post?
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vinceaggrippino aaronpk++ Thank you 😁
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Loqi aaronpk has 46 karma in this channel over the last year (133 in all channels)
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[Joe_Crawford] I think the karma works as the first "word" or last "word" (and maybe both?)
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[Joe_Crawford] Also, for an example of webmention data, here's a chunk of http://webmention.io data for a particular url: https://github.com/artlung/lab.artlung.com/blob/master/webmention_data/webmentions.json
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aaronpk I also definitely recommend downloading the data from webmention.io and storing it yourself rather than fetching it on the fly on every page load
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vinceaggrippino 🤔 Static site built with 11ty... I could probably write it into the build process. It's a very low traffic site, though. If I hit .io every time the page was rebuilt it'd probably hit it more often than if I ran it client side when the page loads. I gotta think on this some more. I haven't committed anything yet.
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aaronpk haha
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aaronpk well it's not just about performance, but also data ownership
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aaronpk ideally you should have your webmentions stored in case webmention.io goes away
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vinceaggrippino [Joe_Crawford]++ Thank you for the webmention data.
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Loqi [Joe_Crawford] has 18 karma in this channel over the last year (121 in all channels)
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carrvo[d] If you are storing the source in addition to the build output, you should be able to store the webmention.io data alongside your source, and integrate it during the build. Then you could hit webmention.io less frequently to update your cache of it.
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[snarfed] aaronpk++ carrvo++
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Loqi carrvo has 6 karma over the last year
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Loqi aaronpk has 47 karma in this channel over the last year (134 in all channels)
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jak2k What is karma?
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Loqi Karma is a community recognition tool used in the IndieWeb community and powered by the friendly bot Loqi https://indieweb.org/Karma
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[schmarty] hehehe. seen in cory doctorow's post from today https://www.flickr.com/photos/philgyford/54275634645
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funkylarma With 11ty I found process that fetch’s webmentions and then caches it. You can then read it into a data collection that can be used at build
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jak2k I fetch them using JS because I don't want to rebuild my website constantly. That would defeat the point of a SSG.
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[tantek] [schmarty]++ hilarious
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Loqi [schmarty] has 8 karma in this channel over the last year (30 in all channels)
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[tantek] admintax << https://www.flickr.com/photos/philgyford/54275634645 "STOP DOING DEVOPS ON PERSONAL SITES" https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54275634645_d7803d3c4a_n.jpg
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Loqi ok, I added "https://www.flickr.com/photos/philgyford/54275634645 "STOP DOING DEVOPS ON PERSONAL SITES" https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54275634645_d7803d3c4a_n.jpg" to the "See Also" section of /admin_tax https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=99687&oldid=98554
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btrem vinceaggrippino
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btrem \
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btrem stupid chat client
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btrem :-D
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btrem vinceaggrippino: some links to help implement webmentions in 11ty: https://sia.codes/posts/webmentions-eleventy-talk/
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btrem https://chrisburnell.com/article/webmention-eleventy-setup/
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btrem https://mxb.dev/blog/using-webmentions-on-static-sites/
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aaronpk followup on yesterday's email thread, it has now turned into a draft https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-hallambaker-any-00.html
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[tantek] Huh. Disappointing to see no mention of IndieAuth nor citation of http://IndieAuth.spec.indieweb.org
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[tantek] It's like they want to just invent their own thing from a BS/ATP perspective
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[tantek] Meh
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aaronpk it's ok, it's relatively rare to cite non-ietf drafts
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aaronpk it does cite the client ID metadata spec that emelia and I are working on, which is part of indieauth now
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[tantek] yeah that's one thing that annoys me about IETF: "relatively rare to cite non-ietf drafts"
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[tantek] I prefer W3C's policy about how they treat citations of any standards / drafts: https://www.w3.org/guide/process/tilt/normative-references.html
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aaronpk it's not impossible to do, i had to go dig up permalinks for a bunch of non-ietf documents for this https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-oauth-browser-based-apps#section-11.1
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aaronpk s/permalinks/stable references
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btrem question for anyone using markdown with front matter for their website. I'm looking for a way to separate bits of content. For short items like title, it goes in front matter. But I want to have longer items, like an appendix or an acknowledgements section. I don't want it to be in the main content for the post. The only solution I can think of is to put in front matter. But it's awkward to include a paragraph with lists insid
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btrem Has anyone had this problem? What was your solution?
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aaronpk good question... I don't have anything quite like acknowledgments section, but I do put a lot of things in the frontmatter and yes it's kind of awkward
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aaronpk some of my frontmatter entries are lists, but it'll be an actual YAML list then
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btrem Lists in yaml are easy, and I use them for all kinds of things. But markdown text in a block string is kinda messy. :(
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capjamesg[d] I wonder if my ideal YAML would just be Python syntax in the front matter 🙃
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carrvo[d] I think it would be quite cool if browsers could render Markdown similar to how they now render PDFs. I know services like GitHub have to translate it into HTML 😦
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btrem Isn't yaml heavily influenced by Python? The indentation works in a similar fashion.
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btrem Browser rendering markdown wouldn't help me. I'd still have long markdown text blocks in my yaml, which is awkward.
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btrem I do objects in my yaml, too. Strings, numbers, dates, lists, objects, all of them are easy to do and human readable. But multiline markdown strings are not as easy to enter and not as readable.
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btrem capjamesg[d]: Not just indentation. Also yaml terminology is Python-esque, e.g., lists instead of arrays, dictionaries instead of objects (despite my last irc message!).
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aaronpk Yeah my longest thing in the frontmatter is the "summary" property which can be several sentences, but nothing more complex than that
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aaronpk maybe worth creating some sort of delimiter for sections in the content?
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aaronpk you could look at the markdown syntax for IETF specs for examples
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aaronpk https://github.com/oauth-wg/oauth-v2-1/blob/defa6b7d2cada9a72a85e9b02564a07047b9f134/draft-ietf-oauth-v2-1.md?plain=1#L189
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