#dev 2025-03-11

2025-03-11 UTC
thegreekgeek, GuestZero_, Toxicogenic, shrewd, grufwub, paotsaq, thegreekgeek_ and MyNetAz joined the channel
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[tantek] !tell snarfed odd new quirk from a BridgyFed federated post: https://mastodon.social/@tantek.com@tantek.com/114142108146212059 seems to show [email protected] for what should be a plain / normal @-@ profile link. Wondering if that also means that @-@ link didn't show up as a @-mention notification either
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi [preview] [Tantek Çelik] Ten years ago today I coined the shorthand “js;dr” for “JavaScript required; Didn’t Read” * https://tantek.com/2015/069/t1/js-dr-...
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doesnm [tantek]: looks like related to Cloudflare or something like this
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[tantek] fascinating
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[snarfed] wat
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Loqi [snarfed]: [tantek] left you a message 6 hours, 26 minutes ago: odd new quirk from a BridgyFed federated post: https://mastodon.social/@tantek.com@tantek.com/114142108146212059 seems to show [email protected] for what should be a plain / normal @-@ profile link. Wondering if that also means that @-@ link didn't show up as a @-mention notification either
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sknebel yeah, thats a cloudflare setting. https://developers.cloudflare.com/waf/tools/scrape-shield/email-address-obfuscation/
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sknebel (it injects some JS to replace the placeholder later, but ofc that doesnt work with non-browser or JS-blocking clients)
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[snarfed] hah ok, so a casualty of Tantek's recent migration there
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Zegnat view-source:https://tantek.com/2025/069/t1/ten-years-jsdr-javascript-required-didnt-read - cmd+f class="__cf_email__"
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Loqi [preview] [Tantek Çelik] Ten years ago today I coined the shorthand “js;dr” for “JavaScript required; Didn’t Read” * https://tantek.com/2015/069/t1/js-dr-javascript-required-dead in reference to (primarily content) pages that were empty (or nearly so) without scr...
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theokiwi do you guys think its possible to create some sort of api that would retrieve google or other search engines results, and then refilter them trying to exclude ai generated garbage?
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theokiwi i was wondering if there was anything that could be done to make the normal web usable again
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capjamesg[d] You may appreciate https://marginalia-search.com/
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capjamesg[d] [edit] You may appreciate https://marginalia-search.com/
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theokiwi thank you!! thats second time you saved me! i appreciate it
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capjamesg[d] Happy to help ✨
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[tantek] Thanks sknebel++
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Loqi sknebel has 9 karma in this channel over the last year (17 in all channels)
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[tantek] The irony of injected JS screwing up my jsdr post I can't even 😂 😂 😂
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[tantek] also hilarity that that the @-@ fedi address syntax gets tripped up by Cloudflare's (presumably) email address detection regex and corrupted despite linking to an https: link
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[artlung] It is better to deployed and gotten bugs than to have never deployed before.
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[tantek] Cloudflare << Troubleshooting: if you see "(@[email protected])" in your web page content or especially when federated (e.g. via [[BridgyFed]]), this is likely due to Cloudflare's Scrape Shield email address detection and obfuscation feature being overzealous (perhaps too broad of a regex) and seeing the [[@-@]] fedi-address as an email address. The solution is to turn off Scrape Shield in your Cloudflare dashboard for your site:
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[tantek] https://developers.cloudflare.com/waf/tools/scrape-shield/email-address-obfuscation/
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Loqi ok, I added "Troubleshooting: if you see "(@[email protected])" in your web page content or especially when federated (e.g. via [[BridgyFed]]), this is likely due to Cloudflare's Scrape Shield email address detection and obfuscation feature being overzealous (perhaps too broad of a regex) and seeing the [[@-@]] fedi-address as an email address. The solution is to turn off Scrape Shield in your Cloudflare dashboard for your site:" to the "See Also" section of /Cloudflare https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=100372&oldid=100027
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[tantek] [artlung]++ perfect is the enemy of the good, and ob testinprod++
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Loqi [artlung] has 3 karma in this channel over the last year (16 in all channels)
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Loqi testinprod has 1 karma over the last year
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[tantek] thanks again sknebel, snarfed. Now documented so hopefully the next person can troubleshoot faster: https://indieweb.org/Cloudflare#Unwanted_email_protected_in_content
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[artlung] Yes, all true. ... Unrelated completely. This morning I'm reading specs for WAP/WML and XHTML2. XHTML2 documents in particular have ambition reminding me of "_My name is Oxymandias, look on my works ye mighty and despair"_
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[artlung] I've not participated in spec writing for public consumption but it sure seems like reading specs for things that never caught on would be as useful to read as specs for things that got incredibly well-used.
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[tantek] [artlung] you might find the first citation in the Wikipedia section on XHTML2 to be humorous 🙂 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XHTML#XHTML_2.0
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[tantek] (I just noticed this myself for the first time)
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[artlung] MARK PILGRIM HAS A POSSE
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[artlung] [tantek]++ and yes I do. And I miss Mark Pilgrim's voice though I well understand why he went 410 Gone.
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Loqi [tantek] has 34 karma in this channel over the last year (157 in all channels)
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[tantek] at the time I admit I was a bit miffed for actively participating in the WG and helping improve XHTML2 drafts for many years (with contributions like that blog post, and of course showing up to meetings to advocate for changes for web developers etc.), and then never being mentioned in the acknowledgments (all of the WDs had empty acks sections) but in hindsight, I think I'm quite ok with not having my name attached to any of those drafts
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[KevinMarks] I still have a backup of his Wordpress DB - sadly the known- hosted version Ben and I stood up is no more. I should render a static version
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[tantek] ^ there's a lesson there about setting up a site archive.
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[artlung] I don't mean to kick or insult folks in the past doing their best. Hindsight can make us pretend we can know the future.
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[artlung] But the XHTML2 spec - the intro stands out - makes some broad claims about what's good and what's possible that contain hubris.
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[tantek] [artlung] a bit of doing their best, but also in all honesty some weird mix between being too far "out ahead" or idealistic, and perhaps a bit of spec-first arrogance (that sometimes happens in web standards) of "if we draft it, they will build it"
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[tantek] also a personally humbling lesson, in that one person bringing feedback in "from the real world" is insufficient to fix a group effort
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[tantek] XHTML2 as an effort and failure kinda had to happen though, to really put the nail in the "XML will replace HTML" coffin.
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[KevinMarks] 404 or 410 imply that something is missing, but it's not the endpoint that is missing
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[KevinMarks] Odd dev question from dayjob - I have a service that depends on receiving emails to update the current state. For monitoring purposes I am making an endpoint that returns how long it is since we last received an email. I want this to sow as an error in the monitoring service if the delay is too long. What HTTP error should I use to signal this state?
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[KevinMarks] 503 Service Unavailable is kinda close, in that I suspect something is down
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[KevinMarks] 504 Gateway Timeout also kinda makes sense if receiving email is a gateway
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[KevinMarks] any thoughts?
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[artlung] 503 with a header to indicate when good to try again.
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[artlung] "temporarily unavailable" is the message. until it's known to be permanently unavailable. which would make it 400 class error.
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[aciccarello] Don't 400 class errors typically indicate an issue with the request?
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[aciccarello] I like 504 for this
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[KevinMarks] Yes, I think I want a 500 class error
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[artlung] Is it... _500 - we f*cked up; 400 - you f*cked up; 300 - f*ck off; 200 cool._
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[KevinMarks] I want a "whoever's in charge of emailing us fucked up" signal
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doesnm [artlung]: what about 100?
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[tantek] [snarfed] I changed the setting on Cloudflare to not obfuscate email address, the view source on my own site looks good, then tried webmentioning Bridgy Fed again but it didn't seem to pick it up as a content update / refederate. Am I doing something wrong?
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[tantek] https://mention.tech/ even said the updated webmention was accepted (202) for reprocessing
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[artlung] _100: later._
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[mattl] artist photo from Wikipedia now: https://libre.fm/artist/Engine+Down/
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[artlung] [mattl]++ nice! How do you set which artists are queued to get wikipedia photos?
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Loqi [mattl] has 23 karma in this channel over the last year (57 in all channels)
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[mattl] [artlung] queued? Just grabbing it when you go to the Artist page.
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[mattl] queuing would imply I know what I'm doing 😉
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[artlung] It seems to be working which implies you do!
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[snarfed] [KevinMarks] if the endpoint is returning monitoring data, "it's been too long" seems like part of the data, not the metadata about the HTTP request to fetch the monitoring data
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[snarfed] personally I'd return 200 and put it in the content, not the HTTP status code
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[aciccarello] That's what we do with most of our monitoring endpoints
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[snarfed] [tantek] looks like BF was a few minutes behind, I'm seeing the update now, eg https://indieweb.social/@tantek.com@tantek.com/114142107366833997
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[snarfed] AP Updates started going out at 9:33:27
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[snarfed] (am PT)
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[tantek] ooh!
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[tantek] looking. thanks for checking [snarfed]++
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Loqi [snarfed] has 43 karma in this channel over the last year (77 in all channels)
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[tantek] curious if this will update past "boosts" of others
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[tantek] ah yes it did! excellent, e.g. https://front-end.social/@heydon who boosted my post BEFORE I sent the update to BridgyFed, has now been updated and shows the correct @-mention instead of "email protected"
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[tantek] BridgyFed++
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Loqi BridgyFed has 4 karma in this channel over the last year (8 in all channels)
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[tantek] excellent, this has now verified that the Solution documented in https://indieweb.org/Cloudflare#Unwanted_email_protected_in_content actually works
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[KevinMarks] [snarfed] in this case it's integrated with a broader monitoring system that polls regularly and logs timeouts, slowness and errors, so returning an error is the right way for it to be escalated
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sknebel [KevinMarks]: I'd go with 400 personally, or some made-up 5xx number if your monitoring system handles that. reason being that then any failure of your system produces a different error code. e.g. 500 might lead to confusion if ever something makes your software crash
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[mattl] use a different error code each time, keep people on their toes
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gRegor lol
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Kolev I think I'll use Nginx + WordPress.
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[tantek] highly recommend asking if anyone has thoughts on that choice in #indieweb-wordpress and see what folks there say
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Kolev [tantek]: Thanks. Asked.
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[Sophia_wood] Started building the skeleton of a svelte 5 blog today. I think it's going to work for me.
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capjamesg[d] [Sophia_wood]++ Nice!
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Loqi [Sophia_wood] has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (7 in all channels)
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capjamesg[d] That is exciting!
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[Sophia_wood]1 I can’t wait to share. I hoped to post lots of birds and flowers.
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capjamesg[d] I'm excited to see what you make.
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[Sophia_wood]1 I should probably include coffee
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Loqi yea!
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balintm hey all, do you know of any sort of convention around adding permashortlinks as a <link> tag with rel=alternate, or any similar way of establishing a relation between a canonical page URL and a shortlink?
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balintm hmm that might be misuse of rel=alternate so maybe a bad example
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[tantek] What is rel shortlink
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Loqi rel-shortlink is a microformats standard for a page to link to a shortlink URL for itself https://indieweb.org/rel-shortlink
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balintm ohh wonderful
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balintm thanks tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 35 karma in this channel over the last year (159 in all channels)
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balintm i don't think i'm able to implement the Link header but the tag is _something_ i guess
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balintm there. ahh that feels nice *sips imaginary coffee*
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capjamesg[d] coffee++
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Loqi coffee has 2 karma in this channel over the last year (15 in all channels)
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