#dev 2025-06-13

2025-06-13 UTC
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[artlung] I have made my goofy thing for the day. https://lab.artlung.com/popover-retro/
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Loqi [preview] Popover à la Windows 95
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[mattl] [artlung] looks great. i am oddly nostalgic for Windows 95 but not using it
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gRegor fun!
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[artlung] thanks!
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[social] That is fun
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gRegor [artlung], if you need to add a little sound... https://samplefocus.com/samples/windows-95-sfx-ta-da
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[artlung] _only a little tempting_ 🙂
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[schmarty] Mess with the timeline and put a Wild Eep on it https://alxwntr.com/classic-mac-os-sounds/
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[schmarty] I almost dropped something today and made an "eep!", which reminded me of the Wild Eep, which reminded me of old Mac OS, After Dark, and the Flying Toasters song. A good trip!
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[artlung] Good stuff. iChat received message is a solid sound.
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[KevinMarks] Now that's a cascade failure https://forgecode.dev/blog/gcp-cloudflare-anthropic-outage/
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[tantek] What is a spof
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Loqi what
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[tantek] lol
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[tantek] What is a SPOF
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Loqi Single points of failure (SPOFs) are aspects or parts of a system which, when they fail, cause crucial parts of (or the entire) system to fail; on the web, the most visible examples are silos and massive site outages when they all depend on a common provider like AWS https://indieweb.org/spof
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[tantek] SPOF << 2025-06-12 [https://forgecode.dev/blog/gcp-cloudflare-anthropic-outage/ When Google Sneezes, the Whole World Catches a Cold]
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Loqi ok, I added "2025-06-12 [https://forgecode.dev/blog/gcp-cloudflare-anthropic-outage/ When Google Sneezes, the Whole World Catches a Cold]" to the "See Also" section of /single_point_of_failure https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=102359&oldid=94485
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[social] Ah, this is what was behind the books and media in O’Reilly’s collection to not work for a few hours yesterday.
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aaronpk i'm impressed that the outage didn't affect me at all yesterday
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doesnm aaronpk: did you use firebase/cloudflare?
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[tantek] same aaronpk
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aaronpk doesnm: apparently not
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[artlung] I feel the same way, it wasn’t until I went to Surfline that I noticed any outage. And it was only in detailed data and extended forecasts that it was visible. Basic function was intact.
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[social] It is always interesting the intermixing of services that are only apparent when one cloud service goes down.
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[social] I let the http://whatfeedswhat.com domain go this past year, but the intent was to capture one’s own workflows, but also see what various integrated services were used.
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btrem Following up on https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2025-06-04/1749077600182500
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Loqi [preview] [[tantek]] CardDAV (and CalDAV) is due for an HTML-based replacement, especially for the read-only use case
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btrem I wonder which would be easier? h-feed of h-cards > CarDav or h-feed of h-cards to LDAP?
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btrem Can anyone point to an example of a CardDav feed? Or an LDAP response? The CardDav spec never provides a full example of a feed, at least, not that I could find.
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doesnm why LDAP need?
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btrem I don't know much about LDAP. I want a feed for a housing coop. The coop already has a Drupal website, where each member can update their email address and phone number. I want to provide something users can subscribe to, using Thunderbird, Gmail, or whatever, so members will have up to date contact info.
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btrem If you don't know Drupal, it allows "views" that can provide filtered content, e.g., current members, board members, officers, etc. So I'm thinking maybe output such lists with microformats, then create something that can convert the h-cards into either a CardDav or LDAP server.
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doesnm why not just output carddav?
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[tantek] IIRC CardDav is a protocol not a format, so "just output carddav" is a type error
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doesnm format is xml, based on webdav
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doesnm also xml
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[tantek] Ah then the reason is XML is no longer fashionable. JSON is the current dev-format fashion
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doesnm why not protobuf? xD
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[tantek] lol
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[tantek] only a little surprised there's no obvious YAML based Ycard and Ycalendar (or yacard and yacalendar for a slang sounding version)
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btrem I'd happily output carddav, if I could find a @!#?@! example of the format.
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btrem Ok, maybe not happily. But I'd do it. ;-)
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btrem It's pretty funky AFAICT. xml wrapper, with CDATA sections that contain vcards.
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[tantek] mmm envelope formats (no thank you)
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btrem Also I don't know if it's possible to output xml using Drupal. I mean, it must be possible, but it'd likely be a PITA.
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btrem [tantek]: well it sure would be nice to have some way to subscribe to a contact feed.
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btrem What is envelope formats?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "envelope formats" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "envelope formats is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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doesnm https://noyaml.com/
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doesnm btrem: i see examples here https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6352.html
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[tantek] looool never seen that site before doesnm++
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Loqi doesnm has 6 karma in this channel over the last year (12 in all channels)
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[tantek] yaml << https://noyaml.com/
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Loqi ok, I added "https://noyaml.com/" to the "See Also" section of /YAML https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=102361&oldid=88619
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btrem I prefer yaml to json. More readable. But yeah, they made it more complicated than it needs to be.
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doesnm [tantek]: same, reposted from another irc channel
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btrem And I got burned trying to add `strictMode: *` because the asterisk is reserved for some obscure feature that probably no one uses.
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doesnm i'm tried to make a , after []
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doesnm lol https://indieweb.org/YAMLFeed
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doesnm did it joke?
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btrem doesnm: I've gone through that spec, several times. And not found any usable examples of the xml format. There's examples of server/client requests/responses. Which I may or may not need.
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btrem The only xml examples I see are how to format requests to edit a carddav, which I don't need.
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btrem e.g., section 6.3.1.1 "mkcol request"
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doesnm i'm made twtxt in json on april 1st at https://doesnm.p.psf.lt/twjson.json . Other persons made in yaml https://eapl.me/yatwt.yaml (huh, 404) and xml https://lyse.isobeef.org/tmp/twxm4.xml
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btrem On a separate topic, I want to add a pgp public key to my website. I looked at examples on the wiki https://indieweb.org/OpenPGP
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btrem It seems like a file ending in .pub should be the digital key. Is there a reason not to offer that as well as the ASCII armored one?
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[tantek] I think there may even be a rel value to link to such a separate key file
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btrem There is a rel value, but I think it's for the base 64 thing. Not sure, and I can't check now because I have to head off to work. For tomorrow, or maybe next week.
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gRegor Most of the examples I've seen are the ASCII armored text
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gRegor https://indieweb.org/OpenPGP#Link_to_your_public_key
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gRegor rel=pgpkey
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gRegor .txt is the easiest since web servers should just deliver that. .pub, most servers would probably prompt to download the file
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[tantek] depends on what Content-Type the server is (or should be?) configured to send for .pub right?
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gRegor right, I think most servers default will be some content type that the browser prompts a download
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gRegor I used to have rel=pgpkey with a .txt file. never used it in practice, though