#dev 2025-09-11

2025-09-11 UTC
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[artlung] coming to this late failxontour but I've run into problems pushing places specifically when I've had GIT-LFS issues, but typically the error messaging is explicit about having found tems of too large a size. do you have specific error messages? usually a specific error message and searching on stackexchange has helped me
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[tantek] a one-line timeline / progression of evolutionary steps in HTML+CSS could be inside a figure details figcaption setup, with the caption explaining the visual HTML timeline
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[tantek] [snarfed]++ for https://snarfed.org/2025-09-07_evan-prodromou-davew-suzannealdrich-there-a-cosocial
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Loqi [snarfed] has 47 karma in this channel over the last year (75 in all channels)
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doesnm <[tantek]> no MD5 built into JS so not porting that code to CASSIS unfortunately <- maybe you can try this: https://stackoverflow.com/a/33486055
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capjamesg After 14 months, the latest version of indieweb-utils is out: https://github.com/capjamesg/indieweb-utils/blob/main/CHANGELOG.md#0100---2025-09-11 🎉
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capjamesg [edit] After 14 months, the latest version of indieweb-utils is out: https://github.com/capjamesg/indieweb-utils/blob/main/CHANGELOG.md#0100---2025-09-11 🎉
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villepreux It's fully custom:
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villepreux I've got a json listing all the blogs/sites I follow along with some categorization tags (personnal blog, ...). I add my new discoveries here.
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villepreux You asked about the how the [web feed](https://villepreux.net/web-feed) on my website work.
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IWDiscord <v​illepreux>
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IWDiscord <v​illepreux>
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villepreux Hi @doesnm !
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villepreux A script parses it and on each entry tries to find
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villepreux * indieweb endpoints, a h-card, or some other descriptive tags, to get some information (textual and visual) about the site and its author
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villepreux * RSS feeds to find recently published blog posts / articles. RSS feeds which are in turn parsed.
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villepreux It generates a new json with rich cards about each site entries.
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villepreux This json is parsed and transformed into the html cards of the web-feed page (a page that needs lots of optimization 😉 )
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Loqi [preview] [James' Coffee] James' Coffee (Collaborative web weaving - At this week’s Homebrew Website Club, I was introduced to the Live Share extension developed by...
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doesnm cool!
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[KevinMarks] https://marc.boisvertdupras.com/going-back-to-jquery-in-2025/
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capjamesg [artlung] Is there a way to animate a details/summary element opening with only CSS?
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[artlung] there are ways to do that, yes. adding a `transition` is the start. And there's also the aspect of setting something animatable
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[artlung] https://css-tricks.com/how-to-animate-the-details-element/
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[artlung] I believe you also need to look at transition-behavior: allow discrete
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[artlung] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/transition-behavior
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[snarfed] https://chat-uploads.indieweb.org/files/2025/09/dev-20250911-161544-untitled.json
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[snarfed] hi [manton]! just fyi I got an oddly shaped AP unfollow from http://micro.blog just now. object.object has #key, which probably isn't right...? ^
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[manton] [snarfed] Thanks! Looking… That does seem wrong, it might accidentally be storing `#key` with the actor URL.
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capjamesg [snarfed] Your granary fix worked. Thank you!!
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[tantek] new challenge idea for 8-bit day: a switch for your website flips it into a mode of delivering pages that are <256bytes each total full payload size
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[tantek] and any external resource is itself <256bytes
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[tantek] doesn't have to validate / be valid. just has to work in current browsers (including mobile, obv)
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[Al_Abut] Wow. And here I thought the 5k challenge was hard
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[Al_Abut] https://alistapart.com/article/5k/
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[Al_Abut] “Contestants dug it because they got to lose the power tools, and work with their hands again.”
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[asuh] h-card landmark
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[asuh] oops, that was supposed to be a search, apologies 🙂
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[asuh] I guess I can ask anyway. Is there an optimal place for the representative h-card to exist? main body, footer, aside, etc?
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[social] what is JSDR?
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Loqi js;dr is JavaScript required; Didn’t Read https://indieweb.org/jsdr
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[snarfed] [asuh] I expect no, that's a design question, separate from mf2 parsing
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[social] what is TSS?
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Loqi TSS is Twitter Style Sheets or Text Style Sheets, a compressed form of CSS applicable to short bits of text, suitable for storing in very small fields like 512 bytes https://indieweb.org/TSS
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[tantek] ^ this is proof of concept that very powerful style sheets can be built in <256 bytes
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[tantek] per my 8bit challenge above
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gRegor idea for [artlung], 8bit CSS Battle :)
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[artlung] that was Battle 20. https://cssbattle.dev/battle/20 🙂
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gRegor nice!
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[Luis_Fernando] 👋 Hello, team!
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capjamesg Welcome!
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[tantek] [artlung] what does "Hover" have to do with 8bit?
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[tantek] did CSS Battle actually have a character counter for the size of the stylesheet(s) you submitted and capped it at 255 chars?
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[artlung] I feel unqualified to answer for why it's named what it's name. the challenges evoke 8-bit games. _A hover by any other name..._
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[tantek] ah that's not what we meant by 8 bit. 8 bit in form, not presentation 🙂
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[tantek] like yes I *also* appreciate the 8-bit aesthetic, audio etc.
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[tantek] different topic
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[artlung] My TI-99/4a-related works exceed the 8-bit form. 16 bit processor. https://artlung.com/videos/reels/ti994a-iwc
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[manton] [snarfed] Following up on that ActivityPub request… This is odd because http://Micro.blog has two separate users with the same actor, one with the `#key` at the end. And `curl -H "Accept: application/activity+json" https://fed.brid.gy/kandr3s.co` is returning 404, so maybe the account migrated somewhere?
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[manton] I do see a bug where the `#key` could be preserved, so I’m fixing that.
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[snarfed] ah yeah they disabled bridging recently
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failxontour [artlung] ok i found the issues there were more then one and it sorta resolved arround an XY issue I suppose. I personally thought i could ignore installing lfs extension on my shared host as I have it locally and my shared host does let me install lfs. Neither through asking them via support ticket / email directly or via ssh into the server restricted access. Second issue I had that I fixed with AI along the way I had se
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failxontour [artlung] t'~ a password for my ssh file as recommended by everyone and for a good reason but as I only publish the local version and only need the protocol as data exchange upload the extra verfication, security provided by ssh is unnessecary for my personal computer. So even if you're not supposed to I removed the passphrase for now.
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failxontour [artlung] mainly did that because whenever I would push changes from codium it would prompt me to type in the password again and again as if ssh-agent was not running or as if I had saved the file in the wrong format or did not add it properly to the editor path
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failxontour [artlung] uploaded the corresponding files that were to huge to get uploaded and I gotta accept that those are not being version controlled for now oh and I had to add an appropiate deploy-hook something i had not done before
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failxontour but now I should also have a remote origin copy that deploys the website for me that I can push my changes too
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[artlung] Sounds like good outcome there. Git-LFS has been good for me for the most part but I do get into peculiar situations related to the hugeness and frequency of changes to my site.
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aaronpk why is it that the coding platforms are the only ones with reasonably simple OAuth these days? I'm looking at what other providers I can add to indielogin.com
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aaronpk i might be able to do linkedin, i just have to create a company page for indielogin.com first
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[tantek] Aaaronpk Wikipedia / Wikipedia!
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[tantek] Aaronpk*
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[tantek] I found their OAuth endpoint the other day
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aaronpk oh interetsing
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[tantek] Checking archives...
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aaronpk haha searching "wikipedia oauth" is not helpful
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capjamesg I added Wikipedia to Alto this week.
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capjamesg aaronpk You need to register an application at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:OAuthConsumerRegistration/list
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capjamesg [edit] aaronpk You need to register an application at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:OAuthConsumerRegistration/list
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capjamesg Mastodon may also be worth adding!
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aaronpk mastodon is a bit of a mess right now
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capjamesg How so?
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aaronpk I don't want to deal with Dynamic Client Registration and the issues that come with it, and neither to they, and they are considering alternatives. Ideally they would adopt IndieAuth directly, but if not, at least they could support Client ID Metadata Documents like IndieAuth does
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capjamesg 👀
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capjamesg Native IndieAuth support would be amazing.
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aaronpk capjamesg: did you need to request page read access here? https://media.aaronpk.com/2025/09/11154352-3220.png
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aaronpk i'm assuming "user identity verification only" does not allow the app to read the user's userpage
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[tantek] aaronpk, the key is to search for Wikimedia with an "m" :)
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[tantek] Thread here: https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2025-09-05#t1757037158897500
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Loqi [preview] [[tantek]] yo! capjamesg and other RelMeAuth implementers, Wikimedia has an OAuth endpoint, and Wikipedia User: pages support rel=me!
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aaronpk hmm, aren't user pages editable by anyone?
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capjamesg aaronpk I think I chose that option.
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[tantek] capjamesg, would you be willing to file separate issues on Mastodon for Mastodon to support being an IndieAuth relying party and then secondarily, Mastodon being an identity provider?
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capjamesg The experience wasn't intuitive 🙁
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aaronpk if anyone can edit someone's user page, they can add a link to their own website, then get logged in to other apps as you
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gRegor Does MW let you put raw links with rel on them? Thought it was limited on HTML attributes
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gRegor *testing*
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aaronpk yeah this is a bad idea lol
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aaronpk even non-logged in users can edit someone's user page https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Tantek&action=edit
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capjamesg [tantek] How does this relate to https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/24066 and https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/4800 ?
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capjamesg [edit] [tantek] How does this relate to https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/24066 and https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/4800 ?
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Loqi [preview] [capjamesg] #24066 Add support for IndieAuth authentication
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capjamesg Wait oof.
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gRegor raw `a href` isn't working for me
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capjamesg It looks like Wikipedia are strict on allowed syntax: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:HTML_in_wikitext
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capjamesg [edit] It looks like Wikipedia are strict on allowed syntax: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:HTML_in_wikitext
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[tantek] capjamesg short answer 24066 is a poorly written issue and has basically been a confusing obstacle
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[tantek] we need new focused issue for the two very different implementation tasks which have very different use-cases
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gRegor Yeah, a element unsupported: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:HTML_in_wikitext#Unsupported_elements
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[tantek] also separately we can ask Mastodon to support consuming RelMeAuth and being a RelMeAuth capable OAuth provider
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gRegor indieweb wiki has some settings to allow it
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[tantek] two different issues again
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capjamesg Can you use [[ ]] to add rel=?
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gRegor not that I know of
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gRegor I think the main thing it supports is a pipe followed by the text you want to appear for the link
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capjamesg [tantek] It sounds like you are better qualified to write these issues than I am 🙂
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gRegor Like `[[public transport|public transportation]]`
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capjamesg Yeah it looks like there are MediaWiki extensions for adding rel= attributes, which implies it isn't built into the default engine.
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[tantek] capjamesg, not necessarily, you have implemented more
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[tantek] point being, separate user-functionality deserves separate issues
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gRegor So I think Wikipedia is safe. It's adding rel-me on the user profile pages only via Preferences > User Profile > URLs to external profiles
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capjamesg I'll see what I can write up tomorrow.
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gRegor Wait, maybe... I thought it did, but my profile is only showing the nofollow. Hm.
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aaronpk ahh, it's adding it in a `<link>` tag way above the content
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gRegor Reviewing https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:RealMe#Verifying_a_link_on_your_user_page
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gRegor ahh, think it's an http-https mismatch between my profile content and the preferences
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GWG- I was wondering how I could leverage my indieauth endpoint to support self hosted software that supports SSO without having to get them to support indieauth specifically
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gRegor That did it! https://pin13.net/mf2/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FUser%3AGregorLove
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gRegor capjamesg, what was the indieauth metadata URL for Alto again? I wanted to check something
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capjamesg [edit] It looks like Wikipedia are strict on allowed syntax: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:HTML_in_wikitext
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capjamesg [edit] aaronpk You need to register an application at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:OAuthConsumerRegistration/list
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aaronpk thanks discord
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gRegor XD
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gRegor Added the enwp rel on my site and looks good: https://indiewebify.me/validate-rel-me/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgregorlove.com%2F
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gRegor Removed the `authn` option on the Twitter rel too, heh. Considered dropping it altogether, but eh
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[tantek] apologies capjamesg I realize my comment was a bit terse (unfriendly) sounding re: IndieAuth/Mastodon issues. unfortunately what happens when I'm trying to follow-up while on a call 🙊
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[tantek] needs to go back to fixing code on his website