#dev 2025-09-12

2025-09-12 UTC
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aaronpk wait, I thought PLC stood for "placeholder"
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aaronpk > PLC stands for "Public Ledger of Credentials"
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aaronpk https://web.plc.directory/
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aaronpk did they just retcon the acronym?
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[tantek] sounds like it
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carrvo I fixed my Apache issue! I won't get into details but I *suspect* it was an ordering issue. **Really** hard to figure out.
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carrvo With...more time my public URLs will be migrated to a new scheme. I want to exercise it internally first...
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carrvo Just patting myself on the back 🙂
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carrvo capjamesg: if you added introspection to Alto you can use my site as a place to test your IndieAuth. Assuming that I haven't broken it somewhere along the lines...since, you know, I have broken a lot lately.
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gRegor carrvo++ congrats!
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Loqi carrvo has 12 karma in this channel over the last year (15 in all channels)
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[social] Congratulations @carrvo!
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gRegor celebrate your wins, especially the had to debug stuff
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gRegor *hard to
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doesnm <aaronpk> > PLC stands for "Public Ledger of Credentials" <- it's backronym. Original name is placeholder
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trwnh i guess they are treating it as less of a placeholder and more as critical infrastructure
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trwnh still though, no real difference between did:plc:foo vs did:web:plc.directory:foo vs https://plc.directory/foo as far as their identity characteristics are concerned
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doesnm what if plc.directory goes down? only mirror can solve it
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GWG I need some new server analytics tools to figure out what is causing my load problems... anyone have any recommendations for what they use to monitor web and other server logs? I haven't updated my infrastructure for that in years and I'm certain good options have changed
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GWG I feel like there has to be something better by now
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capjamesg [artlung] This website has text (the person's name / subheading) that takes up a whole line and scales up and down as you resiez: https://www.keithcirkel.co.uk/
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capjamesg [edit] [artlung] This website has text (the person's name / subheading) that takes up a whole line and scales up and down as you resiez: https://www.keithcirkel.co.uk/
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[artlung] yes. turn off the font weight on those very precisely engineered strings and watch it *not* do that. and check out the very precise font-size calculations to get that right for those spans.
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[artlung] `max(3rem,min(16.4vw,7.5rem))` for the first line, `max(1rem,min(7.52vw,3.45rem))` for the second. it's AWESOME. But that ain't no universal drop in.
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[artlung] as a bonus! the header element has an `overflow-x hidden`! devilishly clever. You don't notice because who cares if a little bit of the lowercase l at the end is missing. FULL MARKS.
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[artlung] CSS is magic. Sorry if I ruin it by explaining the trick.
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[KevinMarks] You can do it with SVG but it stretches the font a bit
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[KevinMarks] 80s t-shirt look
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[KevinMarks] I did it for my hovercards ages ago https://unmung2.appspot.com/hovercard?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftantek.com
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[KevinMarks] You only have a forename so get very wide text https://unmung2.appspot.com/hovercard?url=https%3A%2F%2Fjamesg.blog%2F
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capjamesg This is great!
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[Murray] [capjamesg] if you want a "simpler" way of calculating those breakpoints, check out https://utopia.fyi/
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[KevinMarks] ```<svg width="100%" height="100%">
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[KevinMarks] <text x="0%" y="80%" font-size="30vh" textLength="100%" lengthAdjust="spacingAndGlyphs">James</text>
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[KevinMarks] </svg> ```
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[KevinMarks] `textLength="100%" lengthAdjust="spacingAndGlyphs"` is the cheat
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[KevinMarks] [artlung] will disapprove because of the violence to the glyphs
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[Murray] 😄
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[artlung] never ever argue with working code! no disapprove! but I do have paranoia about svg. HOT STOVE WHICH HAS BURNT ME. Though I'm getting over it. Used an SVG yesterday in my header.
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[KevinMarks] SVG is XML so has that fragility, so you need to be a bit careful with it, especially when generating from a template, but I think it's a fun part of the toolkit
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[Murray] Long been a fan of the stuff Andy Clarke does with SVG (amongst others): https://stuffandnonsense.co.uk/
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capjamesg [edit] [artlung] This website has text (the person's name / subheading) that takes up a whole line and scales up and down as you resiez: https://www.keithcirkel.co.uk/
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[tantek] Keith is great. Also he's now a co-worker :)
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[aciccarello] This title is a bit inflammatory but I do like the suggestion to use attribute selectors https://www.keithcirkel.co.uk/css-classes-considered-harmful/
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gRegor Haven't read yet, but if you wanted to be cheeky you could respond "css classes don't exist" :D
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gRegor what is css class
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Loqi CSS class is something that does not exist yet is often errantly used to refer to space separated values in HTML class attributes and less often to CSS pseudo-classes or CSS class selectors https://indieweb.org/CSS_class
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[tantek] lol I missed that thanks banner blindness
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[tantek] I mean it's ambiguous maybe that's what he means, the phrase is considered harmful
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[tantek] I need to make one of those "taps sign" memes
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[Sophia_wood] If I’m questioning math, I might as well start questioning CSS classes
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[Sophia_wood] https://chat-uploads.indieweb.org/files/2025/09/dev-20250912-174417-img_8962.png
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gRegor Are real numbers government spies? 👀
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[tantek] nice easter egg with the bird in that graphic
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[tantek] or subtle messaging
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[Al_Abut] Good read [aciccarello] , very in-depth. I agree with the problems and usual solutions in the first half, it’s why I like the way Astro isolates styles within a component by default. What do you like about using attributes, that it’s effectively namespaced?
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[Al_Abut] The most common method at scale seems to be atomic systems like Tailwind, which I like conceptually but I just can’t get over how much it overloads the html and makes it unreadable. It’s like having a million classes is the new <div> addiction.
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[tantek] "makes the HTML unreadable" is a solid class of critiques, good observation [Al_Abut]++
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Loqi [Al_Abut] has 2 karma in this channel over the last year (4 in all channels)
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gRegor what is tailwind
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Loqi Tailwind is a CSS framework introduced in 2017 that replicates similar functionality as the standard HTML style attribute, though using abbreviated cryptic class names https://indieweb.org/Tailwind
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[Al_Abut] Thanks! I’m probably tilting at windmills but I keep fantasizing about reconciling the two worlds of CSS - the beautifully handcrafted semantic HTML from smaller artisan personal sites and the robust scalable systems that deliver software on a planetary scale.
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[Al_Abut] Probably never going to happen 🤷‍♂️
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capjamesg Be the change you want to see 😊
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[Al_Abut] Thanks for the morale boost James 😆
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[Al_Abut] But would love to hear concrete examples, like if anyone has built a widely adopted design system that avoids garbage html output.
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[tantek] [Al_Abut] start with the 8-bit challenge for your HTML and your CSS and see where it leads 😄
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[Al_Abut] Shoecobbler’s children, eh?
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[Al_Abut] It’s been easy enough to make my own design system, it’s the second order effects of group collaboration that Tailwind and others made their headway
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trwnh "If we continue to think of the class property as an analog to OOP Classes"... well, there's the problem. they're not OOP classes, they're logical classes, as in set theory
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trwnh "the class property as the only way to represent the state of an object" is entirely the wrong approach, and i do agree attributes are more appropriate for storing state
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trwnh to draw an analogy to rdf, class is Class (types, etc) and attributes are Properties
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trwnh if you think of each tag/node as an entity, you can apply an entity-attribute-value system to it, where class is in fact an attribute
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[aciccarello] The name spacing but also the options for fuzzy selectors
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[tantek] backs away slowly from the "analogy to rdf"
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[artlung] smol pull request time: https://codeberg.org/btxx/xhtml-club/pulls/1 for something called XML Club. https://xhtml.club (good to kick the tyres on Codeberg, too)
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gRegor lol at the name overloading. I was very confused
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gRegor "Current websites that are fairly close to being pure HTML (the rules are a little loose here):
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gRegor "
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[artlung] For me weird naming ambiguity and playfulness is a feature. 🙂
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gRegor Ooh https://nocss.club/
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gRegor via https://xhtml.club/members.html
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gRegor ooh, for recipes https://based.cooking/
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gRegor "We are funded by you only, not 20MB of ads or privacy-violating trackers per page"
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