#dev 2026-05-28

2026-05-28 UTC
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carrvo Hmm, the growth chart that I showed in last week's HWC is choking on loading chartjs.
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carrvo It complains about the source map; however, this works in another place with the same <script> tag. AND the library MUST load because it does draw an empty graph.
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carrvo For reference this is failing: https://turner.enemyterritory.org/user/carrvo/website/growth-chart-boys
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carrvo Well...I would still like to fix the source map error but I figured out how to fix the graph after all (something completely different).
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gRegor I see `TypeError: can't access property "map", window.referencePapaWeightData is undefined` in Firefox
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gRegor As an error. The source maps show up as warnings.
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[morgan] Cool project you showed [gRegorLove] at hwc, Im having some initial barriers to signing in. TIL actually about Micropub, learning about it now!
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[morgan] Would you think it good to ask here about https://indiebookclub.biz/ or I can dm ya 🙂
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[jeremycherfas] `sudo userdel -r username` is my new best friend
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[KevinMarks] This is fun (for a future FrESH?) https://bsky.app/profile/css-only.dev/post/3mmvvnofnnc23
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tellroboxer So I am going through the w3 schools resources on CSS and HTML but I am having a hard time designing websites like those on neocities
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tellroboxer my websites look very primitive in comparison
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[Jo] you could take a look at the source code of neocities websites for inspiration on a design like that could be done
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[Jo] *how
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tellroboxer [Jo]: I have tried doing that previously but some parts I really don't get and the sheer amount of HTML and CSS can be quite intimidating at first
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tellroboxer [edit] [Jo]: I have tried doing that previously but some parts I really don't get and the sheer amount of HTML and CSS can be quite intimidating at first especially certain sites
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ulhar4409 web browsers usually have devtools you can use to inspect specific elements
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ZodiacalComet Pretty sure (most of) everyone started with only able to do basic stuff. I recommend first getting comfortable with both of them, specially with what CSS is capable of in small chunks.
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tellroboxer I usually look at w3 schools for references in terms of CSS
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tellroboxer ZodiacalComet: I am able to do rounded corners on elements and I have tried adding shadows on text
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tellroboxer what also helps is that my desktop setup on endeavour OS which is arch based uses waybar with CSS for styling
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tellroboxer [edit] what also helps is that my desktop setup on endeavour OS which is arch based uses waybar with CSS for styling the status bar
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IWDiscord <t​ellroboxer>
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tellroboxer https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/866577430886350869/1509551604611944589/2026-05-27-17-20-30-328.jpg?ex=6a1996fc&is=6a18457c&hm=4a85111e381a95d4d1ac1d55d7a57f0119e77fece0096729797e5ea078dda5df&
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ZodiacalComet Nice! Ricing does make one very comfortable with something.
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tellroboxer ZodiacalComet: This setup got nearly 80 reddit upvotes on the unixporn subreddit which is a subreddit for Linux desktop setups
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ZodiacalComet Maybe trying to sketch something first before jumping into making it could help?
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deathcomestotime i also recommend this
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tellroboxer ZodiacalComet: I have an account on figma so I could use that
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deathcomestotime oh even better
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ZodiacalComet ^ x2
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tellroboxer I am simply not used to working with figma
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tellroboxer and I am not talented with art
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[capjamesg] I like to draw some ideas out on paper. Even a few lines or boxes can help figure out the layout / what you want on a page.
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tellroboxer I do have inkscape and krita installed on my Linux laptop
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deathcomestotime it might be easier to wireframe on paper then. goo thing about wireframes is theyre allowed to look bad as long as they get across the general layout kinda
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ZodiacalComet Even using pencil and paper works, it is more important to get the full picture of what you want to ease translating it into HTML/CSS
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[capjamesg] ^^
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ZodiacalComet You can also only use simple shapes with these programs like [capjamesg] suggests
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tellroboxer My first website was many years ago on a crappy laptop and it was written in HTML 4 and CSS2 and it looked horrible
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tellroboxer it looked like it was from the mid 90's
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deathcomestotime same
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deathcomestotime but mid 90s is kind of a neocities vibe too :^p
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tellroboxer deathcomestotime: the code was an absolute mess because I used the old HTML outdated HTML tags to style the page with little to no CSS and tons of table layouts
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tellroboxer it's how these websites used to written decades ago
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tellroboxer [edit] deathcomestotime: the code was an absolute mess because I used the old outdated HTML tags to style the page with little to no CSS and tons of table layouts
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tellroboxer so many tables
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tellroboxer [edit] so many nested tables
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tellroboxer I did not know about the existence of flexbox or grid back then
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deathcomestotime i didn't know about html 5 elements like header and main even thought HTML5 had been around for a few years already
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tellroboxer I tried to do boot.dev backend course but it was just too hard
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tellroboxer they even wanted me to learn to count in binary
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tellroboxer I am not good at math
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ZodiacalComet Backend usually is, and only required if you are making a complex site iirc
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ZodiacalComet *imo
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ZodiacalComet why did i write "iirc"?
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tellroboxer I know some python but nothing advanced and especially not advanced math related stuff
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deathcomestotime iircmo
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deathcomestotime I got into websites with only a bit of front end knowledge and self hosted by following a guide. I basically learned shell scripting only because I had to get around a UNIX shell to host my website :)
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[capjamesg] Oh you may like https://badwebsite.club/ to learn about HTML/CSS too.
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deathcomestotime luckily you don't have to be a megahacker to do websites and everyone has to start somewhere
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tellroboxer is it required to be good at image editing software like gimp or inkscape?
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tellroboxer I want to make my own banner
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ulhar4409 it is not required, but it helps
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ZodiacalComet Required? No. And the banner can be a simple/complex/detailed as you can actually make it. My own site has a simple background image and favion that I made because I too don't know how to draw
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ulhar4409 it's a skill that can be developed if you have the patience and motive to develop it
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ZodiacalComet You can also spend as much a time as you want with it until you get something that you are OK with
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ulhar4409 I don't usually have a "banner" anywhere because I could absolutely draw one but I don't have a design in mind
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tellroboxer I simply make my banner with CSS and HTML to add rounded corners and colours
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ulhar4409 that's fair too
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ZodiacalComet That is also valid!
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ZodiacalComet If you want it as a image, there are also ways to "convert" it
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ulhar4409 bonus: html is probably more readable by default
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tellroboxer I originally wanted to make a malware analysis blog
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[artlung] You can make banners with HTML+CSS for sure. I do think most of mine include at least one image but feel free to inspect the HTML (admittedly, the css is all inline and pretty hard to read) https://artlung.com/headers/-
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deathcomestotime so that's how you make those
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tellroboxer I have not yet learned svgs but I am guessing they can be used to make my websites look much better
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[artlung] I have this video from Bad Website Club bookmarked I want to watch - about SVGs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUvRxhnGyUA
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[KevinMarks] I find MDN more helpful than w3schools which is often out of date
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WinnerWind w3schools is great but their organization could use work
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jak2k Yes, MDN is awesome! Probably because it is much closer to the people who actually specify and implement the stuff. Only the navigation & search are sometimes a bit hard to use.
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[morgan] Use MDN daily. Have for nearly a decade. One time paid for MDN Plus. I've also contributed to two or three small edits. Citizen of MDN basically if it was a country
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ZodiacalComet I used to hit the TailwindCSS documentation when I wanted to have a visual cue of what a CSS attribute does.
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gRegor [morgan] feel free to ask indiebookclub questions! Micropub is not a strict requirement, if you have RelMeAuth (like the rel-me links to github I described), or an IndieAuth server, you can sign in with your domain and create posts that only live on your IBC profile. They can always be exported.
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gRegor You've signed in to the wiki before right? So I think you're all set with at least RelMeAuth
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gRegor what is indiebookclub
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Loqi indiebookclub is an app for posting books you are reading to your website using Micropub https://indieweb.org/indiebookclub
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gRegor jak2k: merged https://github.com/indieweb/indieauth-client-php/pull/31 which I think resolved issue 30, but would appreciate tests from anyone to confirm first
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gRegor [artlung]++ for the review/approval
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Loqi [artlung] has 43 karma in this channel over the last year (237 in all channels)
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Loqi [preview] [Jak2k] #31 change user agent #30
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gRegor I just reviewed https://github.com/indieweb/indieauth-client-php/pull/29 and I think it's ready to merge
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Loqi [preview] [carrvo] #29 additional logging for errors
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gRegor [morgan]: oh forgot to mention, I'm not on our Slack often, so DMs there not a great option. Email is fine if you prefer that.
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[morgan] I'll shoot you an email if I can't get logged in again after a fresh try sometime tonight
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gRegor I tried your .org site on indielogin.com and it prompted for github authorization, so that's working. I don't think it will work from your .com because you don't have a rel-me to a service that can support RelMeAuth
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gRegor And they don't chain, like it won't go .com -> .org -> your github
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[morgan] When I tried .org it shows some debugging info
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[morgan] ```Debugging Information:
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[morgan] indiebookclub found the following endpoints on your site:
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[morgan] IndieAuth metadata endpoint: none
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[morgan] Authorization endpoint: https://indielogin.com/auth
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[morgan] Micropub endpoint: none
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[morgan] Token endpoint: none
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[morgan] Revocation endpoint: none```
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gRegor [morgan] you shouldn't link to that indielogin.com/auth in your meta tags. For RelMeAuth all you need is bidirectional rel-me links with at least one of these supported services: https://indielogin.com/setup#supported-providers
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gRegor You having the Authorization endpoint set up is telling indiebookclub "I support IndieAuth"
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aaronpk there shouldn't be any docs anywhere that say to use indielogin.com/auth as an indieauth authorization endpoint, it doesn't do that
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gRegor Yeah I'm interested where that came from, I feel like I've seen it once or twice elsewhere
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gRegor on people's sites I mean, not in docs
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gRegor Might be worth adding to the error checking on indiebookclub, to warn people "hey this doesn't look right"
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[schmarty] i'd expect `http://indielogin.com/auth` shows an error when the user gets redirected there?
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gRegor indiebookclub is halting before it goes through the process
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gRegor I think, at least. I'll have to check.
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gRegor Filed: https://github.com/gRegorLove/indiebookclub/issues/25
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jak2k gRegor: I'll try it out as soon as IndieLogin.com uses that library version.
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gRegor Ah, right. If your site doesn't support micropub, you get prompted if you want to use a hosted account instead. Then there is a sign-in link that will redirect to that indielogin.com endpoint with the IndieAuth query params
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gRegor Which it appears when you click that, indielogin is actually falling back to RelMeAuth. [morgan] what happens when you click "Sign In" above that debugging information?
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[morgan] Will check and try more after work, interested to help support the book club
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[morgan] I probably configured some stuff wrong in recent days making some fast updates
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jak2k Hmm… I added `Link` headers, even when a request is being blocked by Iocaine. Isn't that supported?
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gRegor Not sure what you're testing
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jak2k I'm trying to login using IndieAuth (to debug my half finished implementation). But basically everything I try fails finding the endpoints because they all use fake browser user agents and don't read the `link` header.
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gRegor Nothing has changed on indielogin yet
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gRegor Link headers are supported in discovery though, yes. I'm not familiar with Iocaine
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jak2k I used `curl` to get an Iocaine block page. It shows the headers. But still everything is failing to find the endpoints.
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gRegor Right, it's probably that UA update we just merged
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gRegor I imagine the block page is returning a non-2xx response code too, so clients probably fail on that
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jak2k The block page is returning 200 to send the bad crawlers into a maze.
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jak2k And the headers are definitely there. I could wait until the merged fix is deployed but it should also be working with the headers, shouldn't it?
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aaronpk indielogin.com should recognize the headers
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jak2k Oh, now it is working!
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aaronpk oh good
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[morgan] [gRegorLove] When I clicked Sign in, above the debug info (not the top right) I got this
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[morgan] ```The authorization server of the returned profile URL did not match the initial authorization server (invalid_authorization_endpoint)```
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[morgan] Adding www. seemed to fix it
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[morgan] github has www. in my profile link
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gRegor Ok. You should still remove the `authorization_endpoint=indielogin.com/auth` when you get a chance
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[morgan] I am in 😎
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[morgan] https://chat-uploads.indieweb.org/files/2026/05/dev-20260528-181148-screenshot_2026-05-28_at_11.11.32___am.png
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gRegor sweet :)
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[morgan] I will do! sorry Im confused, how I even added that, did I click an authorization with github somehow
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gRegor no problem!
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gRegor indielogin++ for handling that fallback, that's neat and I didn't expect it
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Loqi indielogin has 3 karma over the last year
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[morgan] to remove that endpoint would I do that on Github , I dont see anything on my code of my website about this
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gRegor No, your .org site
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[morgan] Im looking at that now
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[morgan] Im in a good spirit about this as a learning moment, but basically I remember authing with some github dialog to give it access, I dont remember putting anything on my .org website or .com for that matter, other than the rel=me's
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gRegor waiiiit. sorry, I might have led you down a rabbit trail!
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[morgan] No worries at all Im tooling around with some stuff in a similar realm also heh
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gRegor I don't think you have that, indiebookclub is recognizing you don't have IndieAuth, so falling back to RelMeAuth via indielogin. It's on IBC's side.
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gRegor indiebookclub shouldn't show that in the debugging information, since it wasn't found on your site
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aaronpk aha
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[morgan] Ok cool. Just wanted to make sure I didnt have something auth-related on my site I didnt fully understand, in principle I avoid such things, excited to try out book clun
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[morgan] club~
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gRegor yep, you're good with rel-me links, most indie web sign-in things will support RelMeAuth
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[capjamesg] PSA if you are using self-hosted Ghost, I just got an email saying there has been a critical security patch. Advisories are at https://github.com/TryGhost/Ghost/security/advisories
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[capjamesg] I assume https://github.com/TryGhost/Ghost/security/advisories/GHSA-62q6-4hv4-vjrw is to what the email was referring.
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gRegor [morgan]++ and thanks for helping me find this bug in IBC :)
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Loqi [morgan] has 8 karma in this channel over the last year (27 in all channels)
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[morgan] Nothing like trying out something that seems cool and non-extractive and giving a few bits of feedback. No survey follow up email will arrive even better hehe
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[morgan] I feel invested in documenting some books now
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jak2k I wonder why the `client_id` and `redirect_uri` must be verified in the token endpoint. Does that even provide any value? As far as I see they are not really used anymore at that point of the auth.
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gRegor ooh good idea, I could add a survey popup on IBC after you've been on the site for all of 5 seconds XD
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jak2k My IndieAuth implementation is working! (At least far enough to sign in.) It's good to be in the wiki! Now I "only" have to clean up that spaghetti code…
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[capjamesg] jak2k++ well done!
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Loqi jak2k has 1 karma over the last year
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jak2k I definitely ignored more than one "MUST". 😅 And the error handling is an absolute mess. The design is ugly too. But I can sign in!
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jak2k The key creation and parsing also needs some improvements. (The way I use claims is a bit brittle.) I use PASETO for them which allows me to do the whole thing with only a config file and no database.
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gRegor The client_id requirement comes from https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc6749/#section-3.2.1 "This protects the client from substitution of the authentication code. (It provides no additional security for the protected resource.)"
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gRegor I wonder if it was extra security before PKCE. not sure honestly.
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gRegor Similar for redirect_uri https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc6749/#section-4.1.3 since it's included in the authz request, must be verified there
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aaronpk yes those were pre-PKCE sentences
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jak2k Maybe the spec should use SHOULD then?
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aaronpk that's more of a question for OAuth, not IndieAuth
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gRegor It's probably still a good idea for clients that don't support PKCE, unless your server rejects those
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jak2k Yes, I reject those.
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