#dev 2026-07-02

2026-07-02 UTC
cotsuka, barnabywalters, d1s1nf3ct, grufwub, [Sophia]1, [Sophia], ben, GWG, [mikemai2awesom], blacklight, dustinm` and [Murray] joined the channel
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beangal Yeah, disabled local firefox cache. What was strange is that the caching issue seemed to be server side, `curl` was providing an outdated css file also.
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[Murray] oh that's very weird
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[Murray] you did mention being behind Cloudflare, so that will cache unless you tell it not to, but otherwise, what type of hosting do you use?
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beangal It is behind cloudflare for external clients, but this was coming from my local server.
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beangal Hosting wise, A little linux box in the network cuboard hostnamed `lilboi.local`
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IWDiscord <b​eangal>
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beangal It could have something to do with the Reverse Proxy potentially? But cache assets is disabled on the ferret.life endpoint
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beangal (I'm a massive nerd for self hosting)
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ZodiacalComet cache busting
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beangal I was looking into that last night, modifying the Nginx headers, but thats aroundabout where I got too tired and went back to looking for blingies
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beangal but busting is worth looking into
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[Murray] yeah that does sound weird. I don't know enough about self-hosting, but I'd be surprised if a reverse proxy was causing it. I'm much more of a front-end dev though 😅
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[Murray] you could always try the ol' increment the filename on release, see if it can find new and old, and that should tell you if its being cached?
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beangal Its more of a mild annoyance than an actual problem, the live version gets out eventually.
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WinnerWind just learnt what a <dl> tag is, now im using it everywhere :P https://x0.at/sbAH.png
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hypha super nice
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[Murray] Yeah, <dl> is one of those elements that is very easy to miss, and yet surprisingly useful when you do discover it
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WinnerWind i wonder if there's a list of Cool HTML Elements. Divs are cool but they are a pain for nice things like this.
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hypha for that I look up "semantic html" or common elements from the mid 2000s
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hypha also super underrated for accessibility
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[Murray] @beangal okay, so I might just be seeing the site in a bit of a broken state:
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[Murray] https://chat-uploads.indieweb.org/files/2026/07/dev-20260702-165136-image.png
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[Murray] I think the reason that everything appears interactive to me is that there are links there (`<a>` elements), but they're hidden behind the giant ferret image, which itself is a link, it just doesn't go anywhere
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[Murray] If I force a `max-inline-size` on that image, I see the rest of the nav, and some pretty fun animations, though the placement is still a bit broken. I'm in Firefox, if that helps, but I also don't see any obvious CSS that would be causing this level of placement
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beangal Ah! Sorry for not seeing this!
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[Murray] okay, yeah, if I set `inline-size` (aka `width`) on the two largest images, I see the page more clearly:
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[Murray] https://chat-uploads.indieweb.org/files/2026/07/dev-20260702-165526-image.png
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beangal Oh! I think the css might have just not updated, let me bypass cloudflare cache, one sec
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beangal Yeah, it looks like cloudflare cache haha
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[Murray] Cloudflare strikes again 😄
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[Murray] FYI you can also set width/height directly on an `<img>` element e.g. `<img height="40px" width="80px" src="..." />` which can help
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[Murray] And yep, that now looks really cool:
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[Murray] https://chat-uploads.indieweb.org/files/2026/07/dev-20260702-165716-image.png
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[Murray] I see even more what you mean about SpaceJam 😄
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[Murray] love the buttons too btw
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[Murray] or 88x31s, whatever we're calling them these days
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beangal It updated! yay!
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Loqi does a happy dance!
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beangal [Murray]: I hear buttons, I've been calling them badges however
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beangal and the long one a blingee
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beangal All based on what other sites have been calling them
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doesnm Cloudflare xD. The most cool cloudflare page are https://doesnmlab.xyz
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[Murray] beangal++ haven't heard terms like blingee in a _minute_
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Loqi beangal has 1 karma over the last year
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WinnerWind badges are what i call them too but it causes confusion with another mini project of mine, which i call badges xD https://github.com/jackyzha0/quartz/pull/2005
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Loqi [preview] [WinnerWind] #2005 feat: Add plugin to create badges.
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beangal [Murray]: Blinkie is what I was meant to be calling them! I got the blinkie from here https://adriansblinkiecollection.neocities.org/
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beangal Blingiee is a different service haha
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WinnerWind my main issue with badges is that many of them are textual but are an image so put an absolute wrench into accessbility
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WinnerWind doesnm: ha! good one. (assuming the 500 code is the joke)
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[Murray] I mean, that's what alt text is for?
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WinnerWind alt text?
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[Murray] `<img src="..." alt="Your text description of the image goes here" />`
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beangal Or title text!
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beangal https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/866577430886350869/1522286451784679636/image.png?ex=6a47eb3c&is=6a4699bc&hm=71a82e9402ecbb3fa60480d8043e0896df676412c726128543f7cfc99527ddd7&
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WinnerWind oh yeah i just looked it up, looks VERY useful. going to use it now
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[Murray] So if it's an image of a large, rotating headshot of a purple ferret: `<img src="..." alt="Headshot of a large rotating purple ferret"/>` 😉
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beangal [Murray]: What a whimsical example, I wonder where you got that from haha
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[Murray] The `title` attribute is useful for some folks, but it isn't actually exposed to tools like screen readers, so `alt` text would still be required
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[Murray] In fact, that's a really good example of the best way to use both. So it would be `<img src="..." title="Sign my Guestbook!!!" alt="Guest book" />`, as the alt text can then convey the written text "guest book" that a blind person (for example) would otherwise not be able to read
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[Murray] It adds context via the `title` element for sighted users with mice, and then `alt` text for people browsing the site via audio input, braille, etc.
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[Murray] (although, strictly, `title` can also cause issues with access, on a personal site where its being used for whimsy, I don't think there's ever an issue; it's more of a problem when people used to try SEO stuffing titles with keywords 🤮 )
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doesnm WinnerWind: it is!
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WinnerWind ive been using title already because i like hidden text in tooltips, but alt stuff sounds useful
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doesnm many peoples catched lol
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[Murray] Yeah, `alt` is for accessibility, `title` is for easter eggs 😉
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WinnerWind i really like the tooltip texts that xkcd puts up on their comics, really hilarious, and i didnt know it was THIS easy to do. HTML is quite powerful even without js
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[Murray] Yep! And getting more and more powerful (without JS) with each new release 🙂
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doesnm <doesnm> WinnerWind: it is! <- rayid are hardcoded, also ip address shows 127.0.0.1 . And datacenter are Saratov (was Ohio)
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doesnm i made it after cloudflare downtime just for lulz
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beangal [Murray]: How do I do the opposite of SEO. Search engine Repellent? My robots.txt should be pretty bulletproof
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beangal https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/866577430886350869/1522288507580846192/image.png?ex=6a47ed26&is=6a469ba6&hm=6aa4cc23d88e3b582c99cfdb003497257610372703a1ccbc4ee5a1466285fa4c&
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[Murray] re: xkcd, I really wish Munroe would sort out the accessibility of the `title` jokes. The xkcd bot on Mastodon manages it, and Mayank has run an accessible fork of the webcomic for _years_, it really should have happened by now. https://xkcd.fyi/
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[Murray] ha love that 😄
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beangal Also Karma system? [Murray]++ for the help and friendliness!
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[Murray] it's probably a bit outdated now on terms of AI stuff, but this is one I use on a site that I absolutely do not want appearing in search results or training data, but am happy for the internet archive to pick up:
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[Murray] ```User-agent: archive.org_bot
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[Murray] Disallow:
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[Murray] User-agent: ChatGPT-User
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[Murray] User-agent: Bingbot
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[Murray] User-agent: Googlebot
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[Murray] User-agent: GPTBot
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[Murray] User-agent: ClaudeBot
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[Murray] User-agent: Yandex
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[Murray] User-agent: DuckDuckBot
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[Murray] User-agent: Baiduspider
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[Murray] User-agent: Sogou
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[Murray] User-agent: SemrushBot
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[Murray] User-agent: AhrefsBot
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[Murray] User-agent: Google-Extended
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[Murray] DisallowTraining: /
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[Murray] Disallow: /
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[Murray] DisallowAITraining: /
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[Murray] User-agent: *
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[Murray] Disallow: /
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[Murray] DisallowAITraining: /
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[Murray] Content-Usage: ai=n
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[Murray] Content-Signal: ai-train=no, search=no, ai-input=no```
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[Murray] what is karma
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Loqi Karma is a community recognition tool used in the IndieWeb community and powered by the friendly bot Loqi https://indieweb.org/Karma
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beangal [Murray]++
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Loqi [Murray] has 6 karma in this channel over the last year (11 in all channels)
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beangal Yippee!
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[Murray] some more info there ^ you have to do the name at the start or end of your sentence, which is one of those little gotchas with Loqi 😄
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[Murray] but thanks!
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beangal [Murray]: As funny as the "No Thank You" robots is, its only like that because cloudflare intercepts and appends actual content to it
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beangal # As a condition of accessing this website, you agree to abide by the following
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beangal ```
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beangal # content signals:
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IWDiscord <b​eangal>
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beangal Might be useful for others, this is what cloudflare does when you set it to the strictest "No AI Training" Setting
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theadhocracy Ah, just popping over to Discord as I think the bridge got a bit confused with that for some reason 😄
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theadhocracy Definitely useful, going to just grab that for a second
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theadhocracy (and love that it preserves your message at the end)
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beangal Im not sure whether its also adding additional request headers to the other pages also, especially reading the top bit.
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[artlung] `<img height="40px" width="80px"` I believe Murray suggested - but the `px` strings in there ought not be there. `<img style="width:80px;height:40px"` would be valid but `<img height="40" width="80"` would be correct. See https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference/Elements/img#height (must be integer without a unit). Useful for signalling the browser what aspect ratio to set, even if you end up altering the size with
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[artlung] max-width or width, etc in the CSS.
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[artlung] Also on `robots.txt` I can't say I've seen
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[artlung] ```DisallowTraining: /
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[artlung] DisallowAITraining: /```
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[artlung] directives. I've only seen `Content-Signal` for that kind of thing. If there's documentation on those two I'd love to see it!
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[artlung] https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/disallowaitraining-allowaitraining-robots-ai-control-shaikat-ray-vmkec/ was the proposal. Seems not to have been adopted.
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chr0m4 this was the project I spent the last weekend with, to aid me with my language learning, still missing some features and onbaording but I really like how it turned out, everything is local and managed through files, no login: https://raccoonisland.social/@chroma/116852480329899871
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chr0m4 https://yuniko.chroma.cafe/
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Loqi [preview] [명준] Weekend project to support my korean language learning👇 It lacks a comprehensive guide to get new users started, but I'll be adding that soon! App: https://yuniko.chroma.cafe/ Repository: https://git.chroma.cafe/yuniko.git/ #Programming #Coding...
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[rose] I am a bit, no, very wary of sharing it in case it could be used to mess up less well protected repos... But today I learned I could wrap Github commands in bash to mass approve all open PRs.
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chr0m4 [Rose]: A great power carries a great responsability
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[rose] And request a review from myself. Because the silly thing needs me to first request a review, then refresh, then approve, then submit if I do it via the interface.
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[rose] @chr0m4 Right?! I don't share some things if I think they could be used in a very negative way...
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[rose] In this case, it's simply to speed up some processes - it's a formality. WSG repo basically - we need to approve a load of PRs the lead editor did, but I, editor, and he, will be going through stuff again together when he is back off holiday. But this part needs to be done to get a clear baseline and see the progress that's already been made.
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[rose] So yeah, no need for an actual review here. Plus it seems others HAD reviewed things, they just couldn't work out how to approve. And I really understand that now seeing that you have to literally invite yourself to get the option to approve!
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[rose] tbh I do a fair bit of scraping as part of my work - like, converting things from whatever they are to static, or for translation and copywriting purposes. Similarly, I don't share those tools.
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[rose] They all use existing libraries and so on. All I am really doing is making it easier to use or filtering or whatever. But meh, some things benefit from a barrier to entry.
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[rose] Related (sorry, to my ADHD brain it's related): Mobile device manufacturers are moving more towards electrical debonding for displays, over the previous best practice, head-debondable materials. Higher barrier to entry, but much lower failure rate. For the best.
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[Murray] artlung++ thank you, good catch, was typing too quickly and just defaulted 😅
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Loqi artlung has 42 karma in this channel over the last year (234 in all channels)
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