#dev 2026-09-04

2026-09-04 UTC
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trwnh re: section being useful vs just having headings -- it makes it easier to select document fragments. with just headings you might have "implicit sections" that you don't easily know exactly where they start or end. personally i give my explicit sections ids and refer to them that way (instead of giving headers ids) so it's more clear what's going on
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[tantek] agree with the use-case, except I find divs good enough for that without having to bother with section rules/semantics that seem imprecise anyway
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[Mike] Inspired by https://lofihi.fi/about, I have added `rel="friend"` attributes to my links to my friends' personal sites on my https://michaelkupietz.com/?p=754 page. I can't quite follow his submission form, but the `rel` attributes are there. That is all.
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[tantek] [Mike] interesting. no reference on that "network experiment" to XFN, which is where rel=friend originated
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[tantek] what is XFN
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Loqi XFN (XHTML Friends Network) is the network of visible links across blogs that claim various XFN relationships with/to each other https://indieweb.org/XFN
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[Murray] Also agree RE: `<section>`, and personally prefer the clarity in the DOM, so do use them for that reason 🙂 I reserve `<div>` for something that is basically purely aesthetic e.g. interactions, graphics etc. Helps me feel organised 😅
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wturrell (3rd attempt to post this via the webchat) - re: maps, not used any on own site yet, BUT I'd almost certainly use Leafletjs and either OSM, or, for the UK, Ordnance Survey has a simple API with a pretty generous free tier and you can serve 1:25000 map tiles. And if anyone does anything with R, there's a Leaflet package for that too, which I've used.
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herenti adding drop down menus to my site has me feeling like a pro
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[social] I woke a few times in the night thinking it was some odd dream and I has missed a javascript wrapper in the demo and in code I tried. I really can’t find documentation on this, but it seems to work in all browsers.
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[social] Last night I stumbled across using `onchange="this.form.submit();"` in an input field what has no JavaScript wrapper will be interpreted by browers as JavaScript and make the change. I spent about 2 hours going trying to sort out what dark magic this was. It doesn’t work with JS off in a browser, of course and fallback form works as expected.
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[artlung] right. a form can take a `submit()` method applied to it. And any form element which is a child element of a form tag can do that. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/HTMLFormElement/submit
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[Murray] yup, and you're looking at an event handler attribute in HTML: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference/Global_attributes#list_of_global_event_handler_attributes
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[social] [artlung]++ Thank you. I missed that page digging through MDN last night
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Loqi [artlung] has 44 karma in this channel over the last year (236 in all channels)
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[social] [Murray] I had looked at that last night, but it didn’t make the connection directly as to what I was seeing.
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[Murray] that's fair. Event handlers have always felt a bit like a dark art to me, and definitely don't do well with the whole "separation of concerns" thing. I think current best practice is to move away from them and use EventListeners, so its clear that JS is running and how its working
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[artlung] Yes, the tools which help make JavaScript easier to work with: linting, syntax checking, autocomplete in browsers - are far harder to work with inside an event handler. Still, I have several headers (which I insist must include all their css and (rarely) js inline use them. I made one yesterday. https://artlung.com/headers/-20260903
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[social] I fell down the rabbit hole when converting my list presentation of year ranges and co-categories to radio buttons on my lab category page.
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[Murray] heh that's a fun little header 🙂
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[Murray] I guess we're very close to being able to do that in pure CSS, which is neat
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[social] In digging through CSS needed to have the `<label>` work as a block I stumbled on the `onchange` in an example.
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[artlung] the caveat to that is that animations can't be defined inside style attributes. so something like https://artlung.com/headers/-20260408 if, I don't want a dependent stylesheet, requires some javascript.
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[social] The downside of my test of the `onchange` with `.submit();` is each click of the radio button is a new query and a date range and co-category is two queries not one. But, very quick toggling through options works rather well for discovery. Also with long lists the submit button is a long way down.
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[social] Much more to do on that page. But, now that I under stand what black magic is happening I may be fine-ish with it. The query hits (if many people are faffing at once) is my only consideration of do I want to add friction.
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[Murray] I imagine you could build in a loose debounce, using a timeout value? Not sure if that would still submit each one, or if it would cancel it, but might be possible
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[social] I have a couple options for that, but I don’t know if I want the user friction introduced.
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[Mike] [burgeonlab] Picking up on the octothorpes comments... It's been a while but I believe the WP plugin was what I was trying to make work. I was willing to put in some work to make it happen but I needed some coordination from the folks working on the server and there wasn't any interest so I gave up. It was a while ago, the details are hazy now, but I definitely was disappointed at the lack of interest in getting it to work right with
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[Mike] WordPress.
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[Mike] [tantek] Yeah, that http://lofihi.fi page does link to https://gmpg.org/xfn/... it's the "rel=me" link in the third sentence. He never calls it out explicitly though, that's the only reference. He isn't the clearest writer. I still don't understand the web app he says he built on this.
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herenti random question, has anyone else had issues with verifying their domain with their discord profile? usually dns txt verification happens pretty fast with things but discord is refusing to verify it
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herenti finally got it to go through on https, just very slow
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burgeonlab [Mike]: That's quite disappointing that the organizers were not helpful... they're on my todo list but not a priority. I am busy tinkering with Quartz at the moment for my WordPress migration. TypeScript overrides are so over my head. 😵‍💫 I would love to slim down Quartz eventually when I get to know it more. It's a lot more complex than Hugo!
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[aciccarello] My impression with Octothorpes is that the vision is a few steps ahead of implementation
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lesleylai [burgeonlab]: I am using Quartz for my notes. My feeling is that it's customizability is weak compare to other static site generators, and is most fitful for "publishing one's Obsidian notes as is". Unless one is willing to maintain a folk with perpetual merge conflicts with the upstream
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wturrell (a) thanks to everyone around here for mentioning Obsidian, somehow I'd never heard of it until this week, and have been using nvim + plugins until now (b) Octothorpes… can it scale? won't it be spammed?
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gRegor what is octothorpes
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Loqi Octothorpes is both an aggregator and a method of publishing hashtags and backlinks to help connect web pages used by some community members on their personal sites https://indieweb.org/Octothorpes
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gRegor It requires registration. There's other issues/criticism noted on the wiki page though
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wturrell wturrell wonders if serendipitous links directly from one blog to another, within a post or blogroll, will always just be more "fun" somehow?
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[Mike] [burgeonlab] It's funny to me that personal computing has been around long enough now that names are getting reused. I hear "Quartz" and I immediately assume you're doing something with graphics rendering on Mac. There was another reused name I heard the other day, too, can't quite recall what it was.
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[tantek] another q-word gets used a lot. Quantum. I remember when it used to mean a hard drive manufacturer
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