#events 2024-10-25
2024-10-25 UTC
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[tantek] it's more like admitting to the reality of the situation, that to be inclusive to the set of folks going to the adjacent (in this case prior) event, there's only so many additional rules / restrictions you can place on them without being dis-inclusive of those participants (by pressure, discomfort, inconvenience, etc.)
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# [tantek] GWG, the feeling unwell policy is one that I've seen both at other meetups (can't recall exactly which right now) and at some run clubs I've been to. It has "worked" over a number of years in that in those orgs/meetups, I have observed very high compliance (like can't remember someone showing up, among 10s to 100+ people) who had any kind of visible/discernible symptoms like that
# [tantek] I like it because it is not specific to Covid. It's basically establishing a new broader baseline of group gatherings than we thought was "acceptable" pre-pandemic. In short, there is no more "just a cold" tolerance in this orgs (whereas there was pre-pandemic). Now there's a persistent raised cultural expectation in those circles to NOT show up if you have even a "mild" transmissible illness (or might).
# [tantek] I trust [Joe_Crawford]'s judgment. If you want to provide input on the Health & Safety Rules (https://indieweb.org/2024/SD#Health_and_Safety_Rules) you should do so!
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Loqi [Event Updated] artlung.com updated "Oct 24, 2024 6:00pm Front End Study Hall #013" changed summary https://events.indieweb.org/event/673/history/1897/diff
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gRegor I think it's odd because my consideration for a health and safety policy is mitigating the spread of illness and having a more accessible event. That's my baseline expectation, not the status quo. Another, prior event not having that in place wouldn't really be a factor for me personally when setting up H&S. If anything, I think it makes a case for having stronger mitigations at the events we organize.
# gRegor I'm not really interested in discussions of the inconvenience for people who are capable of wearing masks at the event but may not want to. There are exceptions, which is why in my draft https://indieweb.org/User:Gregorlove.com/sandbox#2024_SD_Health_and_Safety_Policy I included "with the exception of those who can't mask for medical reasons."
# [tantek] There are many factors to balance. accessibility isn't an absolute either, it depends very much on the audience and likely participants, as does inclusion. that's why when an IndieWebCamp is organized adjacent to or especially in co-ordination with another event, it makes sense to consider accessibility and inclusion for the set of folks already deciding to participate in that other event.
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# [tantek] gRegor, for accessibility in general, note that even folks who are experts at accessibility, who take particular care to make conferences accessible have nearly universally dropped all requirements, even recommendations, as of international accessibility conferences in 2024. e.g. https://www.w4a.info/2024/ https://sites.events.concordia.ca/sites/accessconf/en/accessible-canada-accessible-world/ and even
# [tantek] https://accessibility.club/event/accessibility-club-summit-2024 run by our very own community member and organizer [Joschi_Kuphal].
# [tantek] I picked those accessibility examples somewhat at random from https://www.continualengine.com/blog/list-of-accessibility-conferences-2024/ — feel free to go through that list more thoroughly if you wish to see if *any* of them support requiring masking or have health & safety policy examples we can link to and learn from
# gRegor And most of them had hardly any evidence of people taking precautions, because they were only recommendations (or very last minute additions). https://gregorlove.com/2024/05/more-on-health-and-safety/
# [tantek] and my point with the accessibility examples I pointed out above is that neither you nor any other organizer nor "publichealthpledge" (which has not been updated recently, e.g. for 2024 AFAIK) can claim that they know better about "accessibility", because the evidence overwhelming points otherwise
# gRegor I will look through your links more, but in general, I'm not surprised based that a lot of groups/orgs who should otherwise be better about this, kind of have a blind spot about it. And I d largely blame public health institutions and our systems, because they have downplayed it for quite a while now. That matters, it influences decisions.
# [tantek] I'm saying it's arrogant to claim to know more about accessibility than accessibility experts running conferences for hundred or thousands of people who are also disabled, chronically ill, immunocompromised. If all the accessibility experts are disagreeing with you, it's worth re-examining what has informed your opinion and the methodologies you've used for your conclusions.
# gRegor Socialism 2024 https://socialismconference.org/faqs/
# [tantek] [Joschi_Kuphal] capjamesg, also, WDYT of the proposals I made for Friday night before the camp, and the lunches? https://indieweb.org/2024/Berlin#Checklists
# [tantek] !tell capjamesg can you perhaps help with figuring out a plan (and suggested venues) for folks to get coffee and/or breakfast snacks on Saturday & Sunday mornings near the IWC Berlin venue? (I know there are a number of decent coffee places nearby, just not sure which would be open and when on Sat & Sun — need someone to figure that out and document it)
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capjamesg[d] [tantek] I don't have any pronoun pins 😦
# capjamesg[d] I have stickers!
# capjamesg[d] I will take a look re: breakfast and coffee!
# [tantek] feel free to add new sections to /2024/Berlin with local coffee and breakfast options