#meta 2017-06-27

2017-06-27 UTC
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aaronpk argh, the first bit of the demos weren't recorded
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aaronpk wirecast crashed!
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aaronpk and this is why i don't like using computers for livestreaming
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[miklb] ?
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sknebel hm... next time, plan to have someone remote screencapture just in case?
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sknebel do you otherwise use a dedicated HDMI recorder?
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[miklb] or a backup camera recording?
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aaronpk normally i don't have this problem because i don't use computers to record
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aaronpk i didn't have a way to tap in to the video feed at mozilla since they have a whole server rack of video stuff in the back
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aaronpk we should have recorded the Vidyo stream like we did for the breakout rooms tho, that would have worked
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Loqi totally
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aaronpk turning my computer into a space heater now! er i mean, I'm exporting the videos now!
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aaronpk anyone else have thoughts about the food/facilities this weekend? plz add notes! https://indieweb.org/2017#Planning
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gRegorLove Working on linkifying/cleaning up /2017/Introduction
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gRegorLove Er, /2017/Intros
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gRegorLove What's Victoria (from Mozilla)'s last name, for the intros page?
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aaronpk Victoria Wang I believe... check neocities
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sknebel Victoria Wang
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gRegorLove So many people!
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gRegorLove Calling it a night.
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sknebel good night!
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Loqi night night
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j_juran night!
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Zegnat What is huginn?
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Loqi Huginn is a system for building agents that perform automated tasks for you online https://indieweb.org/huginn
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Zegnat finally learned how to do dfns :D
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sebsel :D
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Zegnat !tell gRegorLove I saw you were looking for names (e.g. Victoria) for linkification? If you are still working on it, I made this cheatsheet yesterday with most attendees and how to refer to them on the wiki: https://gist.github.com/Zegnat/9f14b67cca8012173477f5c153fe9386
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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sknebel Zegnat: if you want to use Mumble tomorrow you should ping people now to set it up
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Zegnat I think I will do Talky one more time tomorrow, to lower the entry barrier, in case people from IWS want to show up.
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petermolnar virtual HWC tomorrow?
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sknebel K
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Zegnat Yes. I am making it a regular thing, so trying to stick to the fortnightly schedule, petermolnar
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petermolnar ok
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Zegnat what is next-hwc?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/next-hwc
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Zegnat Should be on there
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Zegnat If you want to RSVP. I don’t have an indie event (yet)
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sknebel I might join you for the first part - be an hour early at our location and join from there
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Zegnat That would be cool! The whole virtual one is more of a drop-in than anything else. I wonder if I should even include a “schedule”, or just say it fills a 2 hour time slot
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sebsel !tell aaronpk we need a topic on this one too. From /discuss: community organisation: event planning, wiki gardening
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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sknebel Kaja << update /topic in irc with stream link?
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Loqi ok, I added "update /topic in irc with stream link?" to the "See Also" section of /User:Kaja.sknebel.net
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Zegnat [miklb]++ for documenting Slack chat!
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Loqi miklb has 2 karma in this channel (38 overall)
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ben_thatmustbeme i do think there is a good reasoning for definitions created by loqi to go to #meta
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tantek what does that mean? the wiki edits?
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Loqi tantek: Zegnat left you a message 17 hours, 37 minutes ago: I think I got all your photos on the respective pages now. Created a preparty page too. Hope this was what you had in mind!
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tantek whoa cool!
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tantek what is 2017/Preparty
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ben_thatmustbeme moving this convo from -dev tantek
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ben_thatmustbeme there was a question about moving wiki edit comments to #meta
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ben_thatmustbeme s/comments/messages
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tantek we discussed that possibility and decided to keep it on dev
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tantek *them on dev
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petermolnar so -dev is strictly code(ish), -chat is whatever, -meta is dev, but not that dev, which, together, sounds like abandining #indieweb itself
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ben_thatmustbeme no, -meta isn't code
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petermolnar hence the 'not that dev'
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tantek petermolnar: #indieweb is the most important channel, it's about all things user features which matter more than how they are coded (-dev), or if they use wordpress (-wordpress), or whether you share them on the wiki or github (-meta)
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tantek if you're abandoning #indieweb channel, then you're abandoning user-centered design
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petermolnar I said sounds like
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tantek how does it possibly sound like?
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tantek that's the question
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petermolnar and I'm questioning -meta
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petermolnar not the rest
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petermolnar (although I don't like -wordpress, I get the reasoning)
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[miklb] tantek that’s a great explanation, but not sure how wiki edits fits into “how they are coded”
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tantek [miklb]: yeah the wiki edits going to dev is kind of like a way to get dev eyeballs doing reviews of edits when necessary
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petermolnar imo -dev should be code and technical discussions; wiki and wiki edits should be -meta, now, that we have it
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tantek wiki edits typically pertain more to code than they do to discussion about the community, hence we decided to keep them in -dev
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petermolnar uhm... there is not much code in the wiki.
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tantek if that changes we can re-assess, however it'd be pretty bad if most wiki editing turned into meta itself
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petermolnar technical, it may be, code? not really.
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tantek most of the wiki is about how to code
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petermolnar which is meta
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tantek hence "pertain more to code"
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petermolnar not code :P
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tantek never did I say directly "code"
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tantek nope
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tantek meta is about indieweb community
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tantek and what tools are we using for community
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tantek discussion about the wiki -> meta
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tantek actual use of the wiki -> not meta
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tantek dev is more than just "code"
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tantek how is that not obvious?
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petermolnar I'm not a native english speaker, maybe that is the problem
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tantek petermolnar: being a developer means more than just writing code
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petermolnar or that I don't like the fact that the number of chatrooms I need to trace is growing
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[miklb] I would argue 80% of the wiki edits that show up in -dev are about HWC, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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tantek algorithms, specifications, formats, protocols etc.
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tantek [miklb]: heh recently edits are about logging IWS/HWC stuff yeah
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sknebel [miklb]: yeah, we considered adding rules for that actually - redirecting event edits only
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ben_thatmustbeme there may be some rules about shifting certain edits to various channels
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tantek 2017/Preparty << 2017/Schedule
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Loqi ok, I added "[[2017/Schedule]]" to the "See Also" section of /2017/Preparty
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tantek Zegnat++
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Loqi zegnat has 11 karma in this channel (98 overall)
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ben_thatmustbeme that was mentioned. i think HWC -> #indieweb or -meta might be a good candidate for that.
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[eddie] petermolnar: I think one of the primary reasons on splitting stuff is people that don’t care about certain areas can follow less. For example, If I’m away for a week I don’t need to try to catch up on Meta but I will want to try to catch up on Dev
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: yeah we could explore segmenting wiki edits
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[miklb] that was my only argument. People having a true -dev discussion, someone is wiki gardening for next round of HWC, 12 updates litter the technical conversation. Makes following discussion difficult reading scroll back.
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tantek [eddie]: right, and if people are just making wiki edits about changes to protocols & formats, but not chatting about it, then obviously you'd want to know that as a dev
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tantek [miklb]: makes sense
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tantek what ben_thatmustbeme said, perhaps HWC/IWC/IWS related edits -> -meta
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[miklb] ?
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[eddie] yeah, I can see the updates to protocols and formats showing up in dev for that
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tantek [eddie]: that's most of what the wiki is
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tantek which is why it's a challenge for both newcomers and people that just want to use indieweb not build it
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[eddie] :thumbsup: I’m actually on your side this time tantek ? ?
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ben_thatmustbeme #indieweb = talking about being indieweb and doing indieweb things, -chat talking about anything not indieweb, -dev talking about building indieweb things , -wordpress, talking about wordpress and the indieweb, -meta talking about the indieweb itself
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ben_thatmustbeme hehe
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tantek the indieweb *community itself
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tantek talking about indieweb itself is still #indieweb
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tantek !tell aaronpk I cleaned up /2017 and moved both past brainstorming and our afterwards notes to https://indieweb.org/2017/Planning
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek Loqi?
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tantek has anyone seen funwhilelost BTW?
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aaronpk great
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Loqi aaronpk: sebsel left you a message 3 hours, 14 minutes ago: we need a topic on this one too. From /discuss: community organisation: event planning, wiki gardening
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Loqi aaronpk: tantek left you a message 2 minutes ago: I cleaned up /2017 and moved both past brainstorming and our afterwards notes to https://indieweb.org/2017/Planning
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tantek [miklb] yeah I agree, the IWS/IWC/HWC edits (like I just made) are annoying in -dev now that you've pointed it out
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GWG I suggested at IWS that there be more granular keyword filtering.
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tantek funny thing is, the regex for those edits is actually really simple
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aaronpk i could probably match on the page name
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tantek any path that starts with /YYYY
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GWG And modifying based on the summary box
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Zegnat tantek, no, I think I tried reaching funwhilelost during the last cleanup. But I will be sending out an email to as many organisers as I can find contact details for this week to tell them about last Leaders Summit, change in status, and asking if they should still be listed as primary contacts.
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tantek thanks Zegnat
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tantek GWG I'm less certain about the summary box
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GWG tantek: It is still data that can be used.
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aaronpk investigates what it will take to intercept wiki edit messages before they hit Loqi
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tantek sure. "can be used" is a bit tail wag dog tho
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tantek use-cases -> what data helps that, is the better path
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tantek aaronpk: Loqi could pick different channels right?
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tantek as part of the reformatting that Loqi does?
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aaronpk the reformatting happens at display time for the web logs
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aaronpk actually this is not going to be impossible now that I've migrated Loqi to using TikTokBot
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aaronpk Loqi used to be the Mediawiki RecentChanges bot which did not provide a hook for me to intercept the wiki edits because the wiki piped directly through the perl script to make Loqi say stuff, which is also how the rest of Loqi worked
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aaronpk but now that Loqi is built on TikTokBot, all the other integrations are actually making Micropub requests to get Loqi to say stuff, and I had to write a new UDP proxy for the wiki edit messages
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aaronpk oh yeah, did i mention Loqi is a micropub server? :P
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tantek 2017/refresh << 2017/site-refresh
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Loqi ok, I added "[[2017/site-refresh]]" to the "See Also" section of /2017/refresh
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tantek 2017/site-refresh << 2017/refresh
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Loqi ok, I added "[[2017/refresh]]" to the "See Also" section of /2017/site-refresh
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Zegnat aaronpk, you mean anyone can micropub into him? ;) Else what fun is there
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aaronpk if you can get an access token then yes :)
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sknebel you have a micropub api on top of TikTokBots?
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aaronpk that is the only api
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sebsel lol, I just wrote an (indeed not very complicated) TikTokBot::message(), but indeed, I could've used my existing micropub::send()
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sebsel sknebel the only thing is that you have a 'channel' param instead of 'h'
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sknebel and no "properties" object
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aaronpk i guess it's derived from micropub, cause it does also have the additional "channel" parameter and it also has actions like join/part
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aaronpk i'm not sure it would pass the micropub.rocks test :P
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aaronpk but it at least uses the same vocabulary
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sknebel and no lists for each property
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sknebel :P
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aaronpk ohh yeah
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aaronpk actually now i forget whether it takes json requests or form-encoded
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aaronpk it takes form-encoded so no lists necessary
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sknebel oh, right. it's formencoded
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sebsel only form-encoded, found that out the hard way
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sebsel or well, hard. it took a while
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sknebel i got confused *again* by the examples in the readme
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aaronpk it's confusing because the bot also allows web hooks to return JSON in which case the examples are what you return
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tantek attempts to generate traffic/focus in #indieweb :)
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aaronpk damn IRC color formatting characters
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sknebel ?
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aaronpk my regex isn't catching them
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ben_thatmustbeme heh, so scanning ports like i did way back when to try to hack loqi wouldn't do any good any more
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ben_thatmustbeme super cool that it uses micropub though
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 1 karma in this channel (1358 overall)
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aaronpk my first meta-karma!
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GWG aaronpk: Some day, you need to cash in that karma
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aaronparecki.com edited /2017/Planning (+1) "test edit" (view diff)
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aaronpk woo!
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[miklb] aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 2 karma in this channel (1359 overall)
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: do you remember how to authenticate to chanserv to set MLOCK stuff?
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ben_thatmustbeme i don't think you authenticate to chanserv, i thought it picks up auth from nickserv
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ben_thatmustbeme should be able to just /msg chanserv flags
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ben_thatmustbeme what are you trying to do?
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[kevinmarks] Couldn't you use category for channel? Starring with #
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aaronpk [kevinmarks]: not all pages have category plus that would require an extra HTTP request for each wiki edit
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: trying to set -t on the channels so anyone can change the topic
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ben_thatmustbeme i think that will do it
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ben_thatmustbeme i just did this /msg chanserv flags #indieweb-meta +t
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[kevinmarks] Oh, you're already using category for wiki category? Makes sense. I was thinking that your micropub to irc gateway could take the #channel as category for the post
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: weird! I was trying to use the SET MLOCK commands
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aaronpk [kevinmarks]: oh the IRC gateway. the difference with channel vs category is it I don't support multiple channels on a message, so category isn't quite the same semantic
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[kevinmarks] Ah, right.
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ben_thatmustbeme ahh, right aaronpk, might have to set it
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ben_thatmustbeme but only after it gets set to +t first
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ben_thatmustbeme ./msg chanserv set #indieweb-meta mlock +t
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ben_thatmustbeme that worked
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aaronpk also i forget how to make ChanServ give Loqi ops again. i think the ops i granted loqi here will be lost if Loqi quits and rejoins
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aaronpk apparently i am not authorized to set channel modes
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ben_thatmustbeme ??
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aaronpk chanserv hates me
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sebsel lol
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: try now for this channel
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ben_thatmustbeme i'll fix in other channels as well if that works
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ben_thatmustbeme also its msg chanserv flags #indieweb-meta Loqi +O
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ben_thatmustbeme for auto-op
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aaronpk can you document this on https://indieweb.org/IRC?
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aaronpk i can never remember this stuff and it's almost impossible to google
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ben_thatmustbeme i always just type /msg chanserv help
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ben_thatmustbeme or /msg chanserv help flags
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ben_thatmustbeme etc
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: can you try setting flags now on this channel
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ben_thatmustbeme want to make sure you have proper full access
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aaronpk "ChanServ (ChanServ@services.): You are not authorized to perform this command."
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aaronpk i'm pretty sure i'm authenticated with nickserv right now...
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ben_thatmustbeme weird...
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ben_thatmustbeme i gave full founder access
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aaronpk that's why i was thinking there was a separate chanserv authentication thingy
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ben_thatmustbeme its IRC nick based
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ben_thatmustbeme okay, i have set all the things now
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ben_thatmustbeme try in here
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ben_thatmustbeme apparently there is a +* to just give full all-the-stuffs
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aaronpk worked!
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ben_thatmustbeme i'll do the same for all other channels too then
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aaronpk hooray
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aaronpk now the real test is whether someone without ops here can set the topic
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ben_thatmustbeme indeed
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ben_thatmustbeme yay!
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Loqi giggles
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ben_thatmustbeme i also set loqi to autoop in all the channels
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gRegorLove Should we limit it to voice people?
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Loqi gRegorLove: Zegnat left you a message 6 hours, 54 minutes ago: I saw you were looking for names (e.g. Victoria) for linkification? If you are still working on it, I made this cheatsheet yesterday with most attendees and how to refer to them on the wiki: https://gist.github.com/Zegnat/9f14b67cca8012173477f5c153fe9386
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ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: you can check accees list via /msg chanserv access #indieweb-meta list
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gRegorLove Ah, excellent!
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gRegorLove Zegnat++
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Loqi zegnat has 12 karma in this channel (99 overall)
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[miklb] WordPress wiki edits in -wordpress is teh best.
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme: thx! is that also documented on /IRC?
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gRegorLove I might get back to that tonight, Zegnat, or maybe not. :)
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Zegnat Same for me gRegorLove. I have D&D night now first :D
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ben_thatmustbeme it is now aaronpk
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aaronpk ben_thatmustbeme++
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Loqi ben_thatmustbeme has 1 karma in this channel (241 overall)
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ben_thatmustbeme woah, you can actually set arbitrary metadata for channels
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ben_thatmustbeme i always forget about some of the stranger settings for irc
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aaronpk uploading 73gb of videos to youtube...
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tantek \o/
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Zegnat Good luck aaronpk!
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aaronpk each session has its own youtube URL now
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aaronpk i want to delete the existing youtube videos once these are uploaded
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Zegnat I’ll have a look and see what is there after D&D. Maybe I can add some to the wiki by then
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sknebel nice. exports from vidyo?
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aaronpk yeah and trimmed to the actual start/end of the sessions
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Zegnat Ooh, trimmed is nice!
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aaronpk and each keynote is a separate video
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Zegnat aaronpk++ for video-gardening
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Loqi aaronpk has 3 karma in this channel (1360 overall)
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gRegorLove I didn't capture everything on /2017/Leaders#Task_List we should before it gets too far away. I think aaronpk had text notes.
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gRegorLove I know we decided to default HWC events with the Regular Meetings; still with TBA, though, right? And the Friday deadline
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gRegorLove Going to set up 07-12 event later today
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sknebel TBA for those that don't have established locations
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gRegorLove Based on what each meetup reports on /HWC?
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sknebel afaik Zegnat wanted to contact organisers and update that
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gRegorLove Sounds good
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Zegnat I believe we were going to put the regular ones in completely? Include location for e.g. Brighton.
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Zegnat I hope to get to emailing after D&D tonight and tomorrow early (my time)
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gRegorLove Sounds good
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gRegorLove Will just need to verify with adactio and others that don't update the wiki, in case there's a random cancellation (before Friday)
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Zegnat Yeah, that’s why we should really limit it to those that are proven regular (by our new rules) :)
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Zegnat If we do notice a problem with the pattern, we can always limit it further, but I think this is a good step.
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Zegnat I also wanted to keep the page from becoming only TBA/TBD. Looks better with events already on it, and places like Brighton are 90% safe to happen.
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upon2020.com edited /2017/Demos (+64) "Added other contributors, and updated that kartik indeed did create a logo!" (view diff)
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Zegnat sknebel, another feature request, for Kaja now! Be able to append to a Inbox section on a user page.
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sknebel Kaja << sknebel, another feature request, for Kaja now! Be able to append to a Inbox section on a user page.
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Loqi ok, I added "sknebel, another feature request, for Kaja now! Be able to append to a Inbox section on a user page." to the "See Also" section of /User:Kaja.sknebel.net
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sknebel Zegnat: please expand there what difference you want compared to what I just did^^^
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Zegnat Oh, I did not know Loqi added to user pages without a whole User:...
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Zegnat Never mind then. I’ll just live with it being called “See Also”
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sknebel oh, right
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sknebel no, thats a good point
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sknebel I added a redirect for Kaja
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sknebel would have to think about notifications as well though
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gRegorLove If the User page has "Inbox" heading, add there, otherwise in "See Also", maybe?
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Zegnat "!inbox IRCName message" and then add it as a minor edit so Loqi doesn’t pick it up? That would require Kaja to know IRC-people though
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aaronpk it's parsable
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[miklb] how would that work? Anyone could add something to someone’s inbox or the bot would only act if person giving command matches the IRCName in command?
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gRegorLove Anyone could do it, and it would add to IRCName's inbox, presuming it found that name on /irc-people
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gRegorLove ... is how I was reading it
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sknebel not yet entirely sure what it'd give us over !tells (since some kind of notification would be needed as well) or writing a post to the person
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sknebel anyways, good night!
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tantek.com edited /events/2017-06-28-homebrew-website-club (+144) "/* San Francisco */ indie event, FB event" (view diff)
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tantek whoa look at that
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tantek segmented wiki edit notifcations!
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tantek pretty funny, now I have to RSVP to my own event so I show up on the FB POSSE copy
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