#meta 2017-07-18

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Zegnat
https://indieweb.org/User:Vanderven.se_martijn/IndieAuth - could I get some eyes on this? aaronpk, sknebel? Would be really sweet to get /IndieAuth cleaned up as our focus on /building_blocks is growing throughout our events.
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Zegnat
/relmeauth and /RelMeAuth link to different things. The first is a PHP library, the second the building block. This part of the IndieWeb documentation is one giant ball of yarn :/
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aaronpk
wow that's a great new version of the IndieAuth page!
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aaronpk
i wonder how many other duplicate pages we have
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sebsel
Zegnat++
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Loqi
sebsel: sl007 left you a message 5 days, 4 hours ago: - if you want, https://indieweb.org/2017/Dortmund/Guest_List - let's add the tent emojis then …
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Loqi
zegnat has 13 karma in this channel (118 overall)
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sebsel
sl007 lol
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Zegnat
I keep finding pages I did not know about that include yet another small piece of the puzzle
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Zegnat
E.g. /distributed-indieauth nicely documents adding endpoints to your <head> :/
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sebsel
I was confused by the double section of 'Self-Hostable Implementations', maybe change that to something like 'Self-Hostable Token Endpoint Implementations' etc.?
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Zegnat
I think I cleaned up /IndieAuth#Issues now, so I am going to copy what is left to my new IndieAuth page
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Zegnat
They are clearly nested, see the ToC sebsel. I don’t really like how minute the difference between h3/h4 is on indieweb.org though. They are quick to run into eachother
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sebsel
I see they are nested, but I needed a few looks for that, because the h3/h4-difference is so small.
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sebsel
Maybe remove 'The Three Parts of', and get them h2/h3?
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sebsel
maybe that's not the solution..
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Zegnat
I am also not sure if I should say indieweb.org is using IndieAuth. I don’t think it is? We simply use IndieAuth.com as an authentication provider, right? And IndieAuth.com just happens to support both RelMeAuth and IndieAuth… Still kept that in.
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aaronpk
hm that might be a good reason to update the mediawiki plugin to actually speak the indieauth protocol itself
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Zegnat
sebsel how are these small CSS tweaks on the headers? Better?
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aaronpk
need an IndieWeb Examples section!
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aaronpk
listing personal sites that support indieauth
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Zegnat
Isn’t that “Supporting Sites and Clients”? Or you mean people who have added the endpoint rels?
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Zegnat
I’ll start on a section for the latter!
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aaronpk
no, i mean specifically "IndieWeb Examples" to match the rest of the wiki, only for personal sites
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aaronpk
that could list both people who have added the rels as well as personal sites you can sign in on
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aaronpk
it's good to call out personal sites separately from services
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aaronpk
what's especially good to see is who is running their own IndieAuth authorization endpoint
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Zegnat
So is there anything in this FAQ that shouldn’t be moved to /indieauth.com? https://indieweb.org/IndieAuth#FAQ
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Zegnat
Or maybe I should ask if there are any questions in there that should be kept on /IndieAuth
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Zegnat
I am not seeing them
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aaronpk
"Why not OpenID Email etc" should be kept on /IndieAuth
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Zegnat
Oh, “Why is the IndieAuth verification response form-encoded instead of JSON” should probably stay too
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Zegnat
Though the form-encoded discussion could potentially go under #Issues too
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aaronpk
yeah better in #Issues
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Zegnat
The “Who not OpenID Email etc” is a valid question. But really sounds like a [[Web sign-in]] question more than a question about IndieAuth?
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aaronpk
good point
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Zegnat
Especially since the answer is just “see Web-sign in”
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aaronpk
well then maybe it's worth keeping on IndieAuth
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aaronpk
since it's probably there because someone had the question while reading about IndieAuth
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Zegnat
I expect it might have been filed as a question re IndieAuth.com-the-service: e.g. why can’t I use OpenID there?
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aaronpk
that could be
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Zegnat
I am just not sure if it makes any sense to read the IndieAuth page and then go: “nice protocol, but what about email?”
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aaronpk
move it to /indieauth.com then i think
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Zegnat
goes to do more moving and will ask questions afterwards~
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Zegnat
Alright, I think #Issues and #To_do are cleaned up now, and I copied them over to my draft page on my user account.
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aaronpk
Zegnat==
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aaronpk
Zegnat++
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Loqi
zegnat has 14 karma in this channel (119 overall)
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Zegnat
aaronpk, what to do with those Feature Requests? They aren’t indieauth.com specific, but they aren’t auth related either? They are more akin to e.g. when using Facebook to login somewhere and allowing that place access to certain information.
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aaronpk
which features?
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Zegnat
Hmm, maybe rewrite them to an issue. Something like “requesting additional user data”
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aaronpk
interesting
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aaronpk
also sounds related to /private_posts
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Zegnat
Yes, but I can see why people bring it up for IndieAuth. Especially when you ask implementors to move away from e.g. login with Facebook.
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Zegnat
goes to rewrite!
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sknebel
aaronpk: is Web sign-in now everything that uses your own url or specifically RelMeAuth? if the first, I'd restructure the page to clearly present that it's the concept name behind differnet things
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Zegnat
I would like to edit “web sign-in” to broadly mean signing in with your own URL. But sknebel is right that my use might be wrong.
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aaronpk
tantek might have some thoughts about that, since it's also on the mf wiki http://microformats.org/wiki/web_sign-in
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Loqi
Web sign-in
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Zegnat
I am otherwise pretty done copying over stuff from /IndieAuth. Please review https://indieweb.org/User:Vanderven.se_martijn/IndieAuth . If people like it I would like to replace the current /IndieAuth with mine.
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Zegnat
We still need cleanups of the endpoint pages, and possibly a proper write-up of the technical spec. But this should at least get people started understanding IndieAuth-the-protocol and get rid of IndieAuth.com-the-service contamination of the page.
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Zegnat
tantek, I would be super grateful if you reviewed the new page too!
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aaronpk
(definitely a proper writeup of the spec)
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tantek
did you come up with a new name for th service?
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sknebel
Zegnat: I'd add a one sentence explanation to "set up using IndieAuth.com" what indieauth.com is
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aaronpk
no this is just fixing up how the wiki pages refer to the protocol and spec
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tantek
Zegnat, I'm confused by "would like to edit “web sign-in” to broadly mean signing in with your own URL" - http://microformats.org/wiki/web_sign-in already does that
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Loqi
Web sign-in
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aaronpk
protocol and service
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aaronpk
right now the microformats wiki is treating "web sign-in" specifically as RelMeAuth
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Zegnat
tantek, no, the mf says you need to be set-up for it using rel="me"
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sknebel
tantek: but the next part of the site clearly only describes RelMeAuth
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Zegnat
Which is RelMeAuth, not IndieAuth.
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tantek
aaronpk it's user feature vs plumbing distinction
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Zegnat
another reason why I was cleaning up the /IndieAuth page: it now no longer mentions rel-me (I think)
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aaronpk
tantek: is the intention that "web sign-in" is the user feature name for RelMeAuth?
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aaronpk
or that it broadly means using your website as your identity
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tantek
no, user-feature first, RelMeAuth was just the plumbing that implemented it
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tantek
the point was to give a user-friendly name to something that is easy to implement
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aaronpk
in other words, if I take away all the rel=me links from my website, but still support the indieauth authorization endpoint, and can sign in to the wiki and telegraph etc, does that mean I still support "web sign-in"?
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tantek
that's a good question
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Zegnat
in other words: is OpenID another example of “web sign-in”?
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tantek
that's an even better question, and there are advantages to yes and no
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tantek
OpenID has so much baggage (hard to setup, get working etc.) that it's better to *contrast* (say no) with OpenID
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tantek
OTOH, to say, OpenID was an older plumbing technique for implementing Web Sign-in which has better techniques now, does a good job of generalizing beyond OpenID
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tantek
OpenID advocates tried to get the same term used (marketed) for both the user-feature and the plumbing which was a mistake IMO
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sknebel
Zegnat: see last edit to your page for what I meant with my note. feel free to revert if you disagree
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Zegnat
sknebel, I dont really disagree. I was mostly trying to keep the how to’s as short as possible. Because that’s the feedback we have been getting.
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Zegnat
How IndieAuth.com-the-service works as RelMeAuth wrapper for the endpoint is mentioned in https://indieweb.org/User:Vanderven.se_martijn/IndieAuth#Third_Party_Services
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Zegnat
But I don’t mind the extra explanation. I might try to shorten it though :)
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tantek
really need a name for that service :)
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sknebel
understandable, but someone going for the "as short as possible" then thinks IndieAuth is rel=me links
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Zegnat
is also setting up D&D night, this was probably the worst timing to start this rewrite project
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tantek
right, and people will do that
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Zegnat
Very good point, sknebel! Didn’t think of that, because *I* know what IndieAuth is...
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tantek
people look for the simplest explanation to get started
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tantek
instead of the most through
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tantek
*thorough
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Zegnat
So if we accept the use of web sign-in; any other complaints with replacing the old page?
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sknebel
Zegnat: your page LGTM
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sknebel
I can take a shot at making the web-sign in page clearer later
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tantek
Zegnat, one of your favorites, see https://indieweb.org/Web_sign-in specifially "Web sign-in supersedes OpenID. " :)
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tantek
so the current answer is no, OpenID is not a form of Web Sign-in because we have drawn a contrast
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Zegnat
Yeah, that’s all fine tantek. The question was is “Web sign-in” was still the correct term, because the mf wiki seemed to describe it only with RelMeAuth.
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tantek
the point of Web Sign-in was to provide a user-facing term for something simpler to use and implement than OpenID for users and developers
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sknebel
And we have the term RelMeAuth
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tantek
right, RelMeAuth is the plumbing that makes Web Sign-in easy to setup and implement
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sknebel
if the term is a user-facing pattern, then I'd list RelMeAuth, IndieAuth and (discouraged) OpenID as ways of achieving it
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tantek
OpenID is not because it is also a user-facing term, that's the problem
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tantek
Another way to think of it would be to say IndieAuth is a way to implement RelMeAuth
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aaronpk
but it's not
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aaronpk
you can implement IndieAuth without RelMeAuth
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tantek
but it is
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sknebel
by that logic, IndieAuth also is a way to implement OpenID (afaik cweiske does that)
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tantek
the fact that you can do other things does not negate that IndieAuth is a way to implement RelMeAuth
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aaronpk
if you want to be able to say that then we need a new name for the protocol that extends OAuth 2.0
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tantek
definitely
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aaronpk
IndieAuth is having an identity crisis
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tantek
has had for a long time
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aaronpk
#irony
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Zegnat
sknebel, I tweaked the description a bit, hopefully clearing things up without refering to other specs and stuff: https://indieweb.org/User:Vanderven.se_martijn/IndieAuth#Set_up_using_IndieAuth.com
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sknebel
Zegnat: if "without refering to other specs and stuff" is the goal then LGTM
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aaronpk
considers WebAuth
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tantek
for the protocol?
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aaronpk
formally as a OAuth 2.0 extension
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tantek
makes sense
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tantek
Zegnat why do you need step 3?
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Zegnat
This is the “short how to to get people going”, which I would rather not clog up with information about how stuff works. sknebel. Just trying to make sure people don’t start thinking of rel-me as IndieAuth again.
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tantek
I don't do that and it works
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tantek
don't include any non-required steps like that in the first How to
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Zegnat
you are not using IndieAuth then tantek
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Zegnat
You are using RelMeAuth
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tantek
Zegnat - no that makes no sense when step 1 is add rel-me links
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sknebel
then you only can log into sites that use IndieAuth.com
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tantek
I think that distinction is only adding confusion
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sknebel
since sites doing the IndieAuth protocol look for the authorization_endpoint first thing
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aaronpk
adding the rel=me links means you can log in to any sites that implement RelMeAuth
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sknebel
and don't necessarily do anything else if that isn't there
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tantek
and should fallback to using "the service"
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Zegnat
IndieAuth.com offers an authorization_endpoint based on RelMeAuth. It wraps RelMeAuth to become IndieAuth compatible.
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Zegnat
It is confusing in all ways, tantek ;)
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tantek
so you don't burden every user with an extra step
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tantek
otherwise you're making the same mistake (one of) that OpenID folks made
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tantek
putting extra work on the user just to make the definitions cleaner / purer
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Zegnat
If we don’t let them set the authorization_endpoint they can’t login to IndieAuth supporting websites :/
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tantek
zegnat: "don't let them" !== "don't force them"
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Zegnat
authorization_endpoint = *must* for IndieAuth sites
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tantek
is kind of weary of the logical flaws in the discussions here
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sknebel
nothing in the existing indieauth documentation says anything about falling back to a central service
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sknebel
and none of the libraries I've looked at implementing it do that
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tantek
so that should be fixed
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aaronpk
nothing about IndieAuth the protocol should include falling back to a central service
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tantek
to make it easier on users
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Zegnat
Please don’t make IndieAuth centralised by hard-linking a protocol to a website!
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tantek
otherwise, you end up with OpenID purity arguments -> worse experience for setup
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sknebel
indeed, don't
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tantek
right, you're thinking purity over UX
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Zegnat
No. I am thinking of the protocol.
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tantek
which is the wrong prioritization
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Zegnat
The protocol CANNOT work without an endpoint declared by the user.
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tantek
no you're working on "How to"
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Zegnat
Unless we centralise it.
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tantek
pick one
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tantek
if you want to write technical protocol docs that's one thing
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tantek
but if you're writing a "How to" on the indieweb.org, you prioritize UX
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tantek
not purity
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aaronpk
i am thinking that we're beyond the point of making "IndieAuth" refer to the protocol, because people think of it in relation to the rel=me links already
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tantek
this is precisely why I rejected all the OpenID thinking / setup crap
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tantek
and documented Web Sign-in and relmeauth as simple as possible
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Zegnat
So... you reject IndieAuth, tantek? Cool.
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tantek
no I reject forcing users to do an unnecessary step
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tantek
just because of "protocol"
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tantek
that's plumbing-centric/first thinking and it's wrong
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sknebel
It is not unnecessary if we want to have an actually "indie" protocol without a central service
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aaronpk
i wish i had a good way of laying all this out
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tantek
sknebel that's the kind of "purity" statement I'm talking about
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tantek
"actually ... without a central service"
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tantek
aaronpk, the way is to start with user focus, always
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Zegnat
IndieAuth has NOTHING to do with any rel="me". IndieAuth lets people specify an authentication endpoint they want to use. Possibly being their own website.
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Zegnat
RelMeAuth lets you login with just rel="me".
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tantek
the protocol must support the simplest possible UX, not the other way around
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Zegnat
Two completely different things. 100% different. If you want to support RelMeAuth and not IndieAuth, that is fine, tantek. But don’t merge them now.
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aaronpk
already has registered webauth.rocks
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tantek
Zegnat - the How to on the page you linked merges them
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Zegnat
Yes, because the IndieAuth.com-service uses rel="me" to verify you own the site
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aaronpk
that "how to" section is actually about indieauth.com so should be moved there
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tantek
right, IndieAuth is using RelMeAuth - which is what I've been saying
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aaronpk
*indieauth.com* is using RelMeAuth
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tantek
so no that page is not ready
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Zegnat
No. IndieAuth.com-the-service. IndieAuth-the-protocol-that-the-wiki-page-is-about does not
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sknebel
no, it doesn't. It shows the quickest way to get an IndieAuth endpoint on your site: by using the one provided by IndieAuth.com. which does RelMeAuth
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tantek
because it's still confusing
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tantek
just here in this conversation
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aaronpk
haha this is a nightmare
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Loqi
awesome
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tantek
sknebel: "quickest way" is how people will understand something
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tantek
you have nearly zero chance of explaining that it's actually not the case
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sknebel
tantek: which is why I just asked to clarify that section so this is clearer
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tantek
adding more text will not help
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tantek
as long it says add rel-me links, it will look and sound like RelMeAuth
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Zegnat
Renaming to WebAuth now …
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sknebel
Zegnat: same problem according to tantek
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tantek
right, that doesn't change the problem noted above
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sknebel
(not that I necessarily agree, but it doesn't help the discussion)
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sknebel
(one of the two should be renamed to make the distinction clearer, but I'm not sure renaming IndieAuth instead of Indieauth.com is better)
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tantek
or both
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aaronpk
the more i talk to people the more i realize that "indieauth" is already cemented in relation to RelMeAuth
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tantek
and keep IndieAuth as the full suite of what IndieWeb uses for signing in
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aaronpk
so I am not opposed to calling the OAuth 2 extension spec something else
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tantek
aaronpk: are you keeping track of that somewhere discoverable?
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tantek
(i.e. gh issues are not discoverable for this because you have to know where to look)
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tantek
(which repo / named thing to look at)
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aaronpk
no, this is just in-person conversations
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sknebel
hm. My impression from HWC was that if you make the distinction clear from the beginning (which really would be helped by renaming one of them) it's not an issue
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aaronpk
too bad webauth .com .net and .org are already taken
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tantek
anything with "Auth" in it should not be user-facing, that should be obvious
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sknebel
if a "less indie" name helps publishing it as a spec, I guess rename the spec, although it'll take ages to update all the documention of all the software using it, rename the libraries and plugins, ...
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tantek
per techno jargon blah
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tantek
so IndieAuth is a fine name for the protocol, except that in practice people already conflate it with incorporating RelMeAuth
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tantek
(because that's how 99% of people use IndieAuth, via RelMeAuth and IndieAuth.com-the-service)
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tantek
use defines meaning
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tantek
Zegnat, that doesn't really help, that's the point of the discussion above!
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Zegnat
Why would that not help? The entire page details exactly how the OAuth extension protocol works.
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Zegnat
And now the howto of indieauth.com makes more sense, as it is clear we do not talk about indieauth-the-rel-me-thing
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Zegnat
If we want to use the term IndieAuth for something else now, we can write a different page for that
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sknebel
Zegnat: we still have an entire ecosystem bound to the name, so not quite ;)
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tantek
exactly, you don't get to singularly make such a decision
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tantek
you have to look at how existing use has already evolved
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tantek
and do your best to adapt
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tantek
is doing wiki history archeology
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Zegnat
Sure, but that’s a *different* rewrite of /IndieAuth then. This page I wrote today is specifically about the protocol.
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sknebel
I guess the key question from me about a rename of the protocol would be a) how do we transition all the existing references to it and b) how do we prevent getting the same confusion under a new name? Because if we don't do that, and sticking with the name and slowly trying to reduce the confusion is just as good
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tantek
I'm saying you don't get to rename anything related to IndieAuth singularly - you're going to have to document how people interpret what, document some alternatives, and make it a longer discussion that will hopefully resolve over time
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tantek
if there was a quick fix, aaronpk would have done it ages ago
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tantek
sknebel: distilling key questions is good. writing them on the wiki is even better to at least capture current state of understanding
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tantek
unlikely to get resolved today or when people are still keeping this chat in their head
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Zegnat
Either people have been doing it correctly, using IndieAuth as a name for the protocol (almost nobody did that apart from a handfull of implementers), or used IndieAuth as a catch-all term for logging in through IndieAuth.com (almost everyone did this). The solution seems to me to rename the protocol (as aaronpk came up with) and possible redirect
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Zegnat
/IndieAuth to /IndieAuth.com for clarity amongst those who have been using the term that way (unknowingly) already. Makes sense to me.
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Zegnat
But I am off to kill some monsters in D&D now :)
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tantek
sknebel, Zegnat, better to capture the nature of all this confusion somewhere on /IndieAuth#Issues that attempt to fix it all in one chat
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tantek
along with questions / proposals there
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tantek
not going to happen in one day/night. this will take iteration over several days (if not weeks)
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tantek
*don't attempt to fix it all in one chat
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sknebel
I honestly thought after Nuremberg (where aaronpk and sebsel started reworking pages, and aaron talked about renaming IndieAuth.com to lessen this confusion) the goal was clear (otherwise I wouldn't have asked about reworking the pages)
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sknebel
but apparently that's suddenly not the case anymore
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sknebel
(Nuremberg not necessarily being a fixed date, but the place I where I heard about it)
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sebsel
yeah, tantek, we have been doing this rename since Nuremberg. So it's not a one-chat thing. But sure, it needs time.
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sebsel
And aaronpk was thinking about the rename before that even.
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tantek
sebsel, point being, capturing the iterations on the wiki is necessary, otherwise it will appear to be a series of disconnected one-chat things
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tantek
so unless you can point to where that is happening on the wiki (the capturing of the discussion on an ongoing basis), then very little actual progress will be made
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jjuran
logusin.{net,org} are available. :-)
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jjuran
But I don’t read that as “log us in”. My brain tries to read “logus” as a blend of “Logan” and “lotus” and gets confused.
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jjuran
Also, possible trademark issue with LogMeIn.
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jjuran
websignin.{net,org} are available.
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sebsel
That's where the discussion keeps going: someone (myself included) who suggests a new name based on what domains are free.
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sebsel
But I agree with tantek that that does not bring us much further.
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Zegnat
I just realised that https://indieweb.org/IndieAuth#How_it_works already specifies that an app goes “looking for an Authorization Endpoint”. It is literally only “Set up using IndieAuth.com” that omits this.
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sebsel
'How it works' was added by me in the IndieWebWeek train :o
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sebsel
That's already an attempt to steer to IndieAuth-the-protocol for that page.
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Zegnat
Aah, haha, that explains that then :D
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Loqi
Zegnat: lol
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jjuran
IIUC, consensus is that protocol and service require separate names. Tantek says users shouldn’t see “auth” in the name, so IndieAuth can be the protocol name and the service needs a new name, and hence a new domain name.
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tantek
jjuran see above about capturing the nature of all this confusion somewhere on /IndieAuth#Issues
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sknebel
added my understanding of the sitatuion to /IndieAuth
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sknebel
(cc aaronpk)
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aaronpk
oh thanks beat me to it
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Zegnat
aaronpk how much are you leaning towards renaming the protocol/oauth-extension? Maybe worth adding a note about that?
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aaronpk
i'll add a note
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Zegnat
That would make clear wether we want to steer the IndieAuth name towards the protocol or not.
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sebsel
Do we need a separate discussion page for this matter?
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aaronpk
eh this section is fine for now
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aaronpk
if the spec isn't called IndieAuth, and indieauth.com gets renamed, then what exactly is IndieAuth?
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jjuran
Anyway, I see “web sign-in” is already being used. It might be a good idea to grab the domain names.
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aaronpk
oops edit conflict
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Loqi
Aaron Parecki
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sebsel
Where he says: I don't want to be Aaron Parecki on Facebook and Aaron Parecki on Twitter, I just want to be Aaron Parecki
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Zegnat
IndieAuth could become either a generic term, e.g. synonymous for web sign-in, or we “deprecate” it?
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sebsel
That is very use-case centric.
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sebsel
And it describes the flow you can have with IndieAuth.com
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jjuran
aaronpk: Yeah, I did a Show Changes and saw your new edits in the “before” side, and had to redo mine. :-/
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aaronpk
wow 2012 talk
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aaronpk
the description of that looks like it's about just indieauth.com the relmeauth wrapper
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aaronpk
sebsel: did you find my slides from that? I found the original ppt file
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sebsel
it is
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sebsel
And no, I have only audio here now
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Loqi
From OAuth to IndieAuth: Own your online identity
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sebsel
nice :)
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aaronpk
nice, i updated the opensourcebridge page to link to that
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Zegnat
aaronpk, I didn’t check the talks yet :/ The articles section I moved to … RelMeAuth I think, as they seemed to all be about that
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Zegnat
IndieAuth might even (almost) be treated as a synonym not for web sign-in but for RelMeAuth :/
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aaronpk
whee and updated my post to include the description and audio file
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Zegnat
updates++
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Loqi
updates has 1 karma
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aaronpk
#ownyourdata
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sebsel
if you define IndieAuth as 'the thing that IndieAuth.com does', than IndieAuth is both the OAuth extention and RelMeAuth, and it's a great idea and service, but very hard to decentralize.
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sebsel
a post is never to old to change :)
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sebsel
I can link to the slides page 25, but back then, this was the way it was defined ;) https://seblog.nl/temp/media-endpoint/77a543-page25.jpg
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aaronpk
that looks like it's describing the indieauth.com API
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aaronpk
(which happens to look a lot like OAuth 2.0)
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Zegnat
indieauth.com/auth is still an IndieAuth-the-protocol authorization-endpoint. So that slide seems right.
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sl007
Zegnat : The IndieAuth Poster is ready. How about a short url "ia" for now, similar to the other posters, so we can redirect ...
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Zegnat
I am not sure linking to the wiki page helps people a lot, sl007. Read back today’s chat. Not sure what to do.
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sl007
This is why I asked allthough gave up in the middle ;) Same here.
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Zegnat
You might want to focus on “Web sign-in” instead. As that isn’t changing any time soon: logging in by simply entering your URL
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tantek
indeed
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sl007
Zegnat : That is a very generic name that nobody is used to (?). The term is used by many commercial services. E. g. https://wob.deutsche-bank.de/trxm/help/pu_help_log_websign.html - there are good proposals in https://github.com/aaronpk/IndieAuth.com/issues/138
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aaronpk
websign?
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aaronpk
RelMeAuth is solid
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aaronpk
and indieauth.com is a great way to use it
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Zegnat
Oh, yeah, RelMeAuth is definitely well established
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Zegnat
sl007, “Web sign-in” isn’t a rename for IndieAuth. It is a description of logging into places with your URL: http://indieweb.org/Web_sign-in
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sknebel
still true that it sounds fairly generic, and there didn't really seem to be consensus what exactly falls under the term
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Zegnat
RelMeAuth then, as a building block, would be good.
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sebsel
Nice thing about taking RelMeAuth is that, if you describe what IndieAuth.com does, the poster itself doesn't need to change much ;)
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Zegnat
Time to clean up /RelMeAuth and maybe move /relmeauth :D Hehe
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aaronpk
definitely those two pages should be consolidated hehe
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tantek
wait what there are two capitalizations on the wiki?!?
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Zegnat
One is a library, the other the standard
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sknebel
what to move the second one to? themattharris-relmeauth?
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Zegnat
Ran into that today when reading up on all the auth stuff we have
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Zegnat
maybe relmeauth-php ?
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tantek
yes the library should include the lang like that
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tantek
ok to use the . as I think we do elsewhere
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aaronpk
Oh I didn't realize one was about the library lol
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sknebel
so I move it to relmeauth.php, update all links, and we then redirect /relmeauth to /RelMeAuth?
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Loqi
[aaronpk] #78 rename the project
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tantek
aaronpk, looks like a running theme for you ;)
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aaronpk
i'm on the fence about that one actually
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aaronpk
i don't think people are confused about whether the webmention spec is tied to webmention.io
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tantek
fewer people are exposed to that term re-use
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tantek
fewer people use webmention.io than use indieauth to sign into the indieweb wiki
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aaronpk
that's true
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aaronpk
also if you use it it's because you've found it and signed up
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aaronpk
which is different from indieauth.com which you might use when you're signing in to a site you stumble across
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tantek
indeed
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tantek
both of those are worth mentioning on that issue 78!
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tantek
just did a search for http://indiewebcamp.com/ in his Firefox history (7550 items!) and is doing a mass delete - so none of those URLs autocomplete anymore
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tantek
yeah I think we need to bring back !block at least for admins/leaders
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aaronpk
i need to fix how it works
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tantek
for telling Loqi to stop showing things from certain accounts
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tantek
and to unlink any old @-references to those accounts
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aaronpk
unfortunately those two things are in totally different places
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aaronpk
so it's kinda tricky
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tantek
is kinda relieved Loqi is not monolithic and unified. yet.
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tantek
what is a kit
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "kit" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10pE
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tantek
what is an IndieWebCamp kit
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Loqi
It looks like we don't have a page for "IndieWebCamp kit" yet. Would you like to create it? https://indieweb.org/s/10pF
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tantek
IndieWebCamp kit is a small minimum set of supplies that help to run an [[IndieWebCamp]] such as large sticky notes and Hello My Name Is name badges.
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tantek
aaronpk: check out and add to this from your experience: https://indieweb.org/IndieWebCamp_kit
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Loqi
ok, I added "* [[IndieWebCamps#How_to_organize|IndieWebCamps: How to organize]]" to the "See Also" section of /Planning
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tantek
IndieWebCamps << Planning
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Loqi
ok, I added "[[Planning]]" to the "See Also" section of /IndieWebCamps
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tantek
is iPod-brain-dumping
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Loqi
[[events/2017-07-25-homebrew-website-club]] !N https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?oldid=39245&rcid=39156 * Kongaloosh.com * (+1575) Created page with "== Details == === What === * <span class="u-url url u-uid uid">https://indieweb.org/events/2017-07-25-homebrew-website-club</span> <div class="p-description description"> '''[ht..."
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